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Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20)
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ChrisRussell: The CEO of smart recruiters.That'snextonthe RecTech Podcast.
Speaker2: Welcome toRecTech,the podcastwhere recruitingandtechnologyintersect.
Each month you'll hearfromvendorsshapingthe recruitingworldalongwith
recruiterswho'll tell youhow theyuse technologytohire talent.Now here's
your host,the mad scientistof onlinerecruiting,ChrisRussell.
ChrisRussell: Heyeveryone,you're listeningtothe onlypodcastthathelpsemployersand
recruitersconnectwithmore candidatesthroughtechnology-inspired
conversations.We are all aboutthe new toolsand tactics to landyou more
talent.Today'sepisode isavendoredition.
ChrisRussell: The RecTech Podcastissponsoredinpart byour friendsatEmissary.ai,the text
recruitingplatform.Yournextsuperstarisindemandandonthe move.
Emissaryisthe easiestway toconnectwiththemfasterandmore effectively
wherevertheyare.Soif youhaven'tembeddedtextingintoyourrecruiting
processyet,whatare youwaitingfor?It's definitelysomethingthat'sas a
channel,today'semployersneedtocommunicate more effectivelywiththere
candidatesandprospects.Goto emissary.ai andscheduleademotoday.
ChrisRussell: We're also sponsoredbyourfriendsatWorkHere.com, the hyper-local
candidate deliverytool throughgeo-fencingappplatform.Youcan reachmore
people throughtheironline adswithpinpointprecisionwhere theylive,work
and shop.WorkHere will advertise yourjobsonthe screenscandidatesuse the
most,theirmobile phone.Andmessagingisthendeliveredintothe social
mobile appstheyuse mostoften.HeadovertoWorkHere.comandbe sure to
tell themhearditthe RecTechpodcast.
ChrisRussell: All right,sotoday's audioisan interview withJeromeTernyck,CEOof
SmartRecruiters,one of myfavorite ATS'soutthere.The firstone I everused
actuallyas a recruiter.Isat downfor himat theirSan Franciscoofficesfora30
minute conversation,andIthinkyou're reallygoingtoenjoythisone.He was
veryopenand honestandauthenticashe alwaysisand enjoythe audio.
ChrisRussell: Okay.I'm here withJerome Ternyck,CEOof SmartRecruitersintheirSan
FranciscoofficesonBushStreetandhad a chance to come downhere afterthe
TA weekeventsandcome see Jerome.He'salwaysbeeninvitingme outhere
and finallygotachance to make itto San Fran and SmartRecruiter.SoJerome,
firstof all,it's greatto see youagain and how'slife today?
Jerome Ternyck: Likewise.Thanksforhavingme onthe show.Andyeah,life isgood.Life isgood.
You're actuallycatchingme todayon Januarythe 30th whichisexactly24 hours
before the endof our fiscal yearsowe're busysigningdealsleftandright,
rushingintothe endof the yearpreparingbudgets.AndIthinkonFriday
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Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20)
Transcript by Rev.com
Page 2 of 13
eveningeverybodywillbe restingforweekend.Butjustforthe weekend,
because we have ourHiringSuccessconference comingupintwoweeksonFeb
11 and 12. Whenwe'll have athousandpeople cominghere andsowe're
excited.It'sbusytime here.
ChrisRussell: Yeah,definitely.Quickhistorylessonforpeople whoknow me.SmartRecruiters
was the veryfirstATSI everusedas it recruitedbackin2014-ish around there.I
pickedthembecause theyseemedtobe amodernplatformbackthen,and they
still are.Theyhadan app and thingslike thatat the time,whichwere pretty
new.I've alwayskindof admiredSmartRecruitersfromafaranyway,andalsoas
a user inthat time.Butjustgive the audience asense of where youguysare
nowin termsof customerbase and employee-wise andthingslikethat.Justgive
us a quickoverview.
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.So we startedthe companyin 2011. We spentfouryears inR&D and
reallywhatwe were building,whatwe aimed[inaudible00:00:03:36]. Okay,
whatis a generational successortoapplicanttrackingsystems?Applicant
trackingsystemswere bornoutof we needtoautomate the file cabinet.
Resumeswere paperbased;the internetarrived.OhmyGod, candidatescanfill
informs,and I can track themin a system.Butthiswhole ideathatpeople are
actuallytrackedas applicantsina systemlike eventhe name iswrong.Applicant
trackingsystemdoesn'tsayhire amazingpeople system.
Jerome Ternyck: Andhavingbuildmyself anATSbetween2000 and2010 whenI started
SmartRecruiters,Iwaslike,okay,reallygettingready.Take ablanksheetof
paperand whatdo we want to getout here?Andsowe landedonthree core
thingsthat are talentacquisitionsuiteshoulddo.One,itshouldhelpme attract
candidates.Thatspeakstomarketingandhow you attract candidatesand
advertisingandreferralsandgoodwebsite andgoodcandidate experience.And
there'sa whole lotof thingsthatneedto be done inthe area of CRMand
marketingandso on.
Jerome Ternyck: Second,we saidmanagershave touse itand we have to double downon
collaborationbecause recruiters cannotbe successfulif the managersaren't
playingwiththemintheirsystem.Andsowe focusedoncollaboration,hiring
managerengagement,scorecardscheduling,makingmore thatprocesslike
supersmoothand efficient.Andthird,it'saboutrecruiterandrecruiter
productivity.Andrecruitersnowadays,they're beingaskedtomove mountains,
but theyhave toolsandtechnologiesfromdecadesago.
ChrisRussell: They're beingheldback.
Jerome Ternyck: Andthey're completelyheldback,absolutely.Sogiving recruitersall of their
data processesandsuppliersinone systemwhere theycanbe incontrol and
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Page 3 of 13
compliance.Andsothose three things,recruiterproductivity,hiringmanager
engagement,andcandidate experience iswhatwe designedtospend...we
spentalmostfourand a half yearsjustdevelopingthe product.We launchedit
in2015 so that's five yearsagonow.And we've now since thensignedjustshy
of a thousandenterprisecustomers.We have several thousandsmaller
companiesusingourplatformonvariouscapacity,butreallythe enterprise
segmentathousandcustomers,thisiswhere we actuallymake ourmoney.Our
revenue are made there.
Jerome Ternyck: Some bignames,we have companieslike Visa,Bosch,whichhaslike 400,000
employees.EvenLinkedInusesusnow as their[inaudible00:05:56] as they're
implementingTwitter.Soreallylarge progressive companiesthatare using
SmartRecruiters.We have 300 employeesworldwide.We raised$100 millionof
equitymoneyfromvariousinvestors,Salesforce beingone of ourinvestors.So
we're reallylookingathey,recruitingisnotthisadministrative automated
functionaswe thoughtin the past.It's actuallya fairlysalesandmarketing
orientedfunction.It'sa competitive advantage tocompanieswoulddo itwell.
What's the platformthat doesthat?Andthisis whatwe deliver.
ChrisRussell: Excellent.Whatdoyouthinkof the overall activityhappeninginthe market
itself asfar as HR techgoes,all the mergersand acquisitionsyou're seeing
biggerplayersgroupupsmallerplayerstobe an all encompassingplatform.
What's your overall senseof where we are now inHR tech?
Jerome Ternyck: I thinkwe're ina very,veryexcitingtime of HRtech.Andthat is ontwo counts.
On the core HR, there'sa replacementcycle happeningwithenormous
efficiencygainsandautomationopportunitiesandthatcharge isledby
Workdayin core HR and there'smuchmore happeningthere.AndIthinkthere
we're reallyseeingaveryclassicreplacementcycle of oldschool HRsystems.
Jerome Ternyck: On the recruitingside,we're actuallyseeingareal shiftof marketbecause we
are goingawayfrom, Hey youapply,youare screenedandthenmaybe youget
the job.We're goingintothisisa full scale salesandmarketingfunctionand TA
leadersare becomingmarketers,marketersincampaigns,innurturing,in
sourcing,inreferrals,inhow theyorganize it.It'smore collaborative.Sothere's
a whole setof a new generationof TA leadersthatare actuallyemerging.
Jerome Ternyck: Andit's interestingbecause inHRtech,the worldhere dividesbetweentwo
typesof tierleaders.Those whoare goingto be swallowedinside the HR
system.Andit'sbasicallyohyouuse Taleo,Iknow thisrecruitingsystemfrom
workthere.SAPisnot better,butyou've beenonTaleoforages.Justshut up
and keep,keepyourlife.Andthat'sbasicallysayingrecruitingisanadmin
process.I don'tcare about winningthe besttalent,I'mjustprocessingresume
here and fillingseats.
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Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20)
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Page 4 of 13
Jerome Ternyck: The other generationof tierleadersare like,noactuallyguys,if youinvestin
recruiting,Ican deliverbettercandidatesandif youhave betterpeople than
your competitor,we're goingtowinasa company.Andso how do we actually
take recruitingandmake thisa competitive advantage,whichthenjustifiesa
propertalentacquisitionsuite thatfocusesonhow youattract, select,andhire
amazingtalentat scale.Andwhenyougoto the CEO andyou say,wouldyou
like tohave hiringsuccess?Wouldyoulike tobe able to hire amazingtalenton
demand?Like yousee the eyesare becomingreallyexcitedhere becauseyes,
everyCEOin the worldwouldlike tobe able tohire amazingtalentondemand.
Theyjustdon't know how to do it.Andwhenit getsgobbledintoHRand into
processesandback office functions,it'sarace to the bottom.It's faster,
cheaper.
ChrisRussell: I can't tell youhow many TA leadersI've metwhosayI'm juststuck withthis
ATS,usuallyit'sTaleo,let'sbe honest.Andthey're paralyzed.They're afraidof
that change,andmany timestheyjustdon'twantto do it.They don'twant to
make that plunge.Andthose are the oneswhoare goingto get swallowed,
right?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.Theydefinitelyare gettingswallowed,butit'sworse fightingforitbecause
well,Ihadthe example thismorningactually.Iwasona phone witha TA leader
of a 95,000 employeecompany.Andthey'vebeenonTaleoforever.A company,
verydecentralized,notalotof powerincorporate HR, and thisone personwent
on a war to say,I want to replace TaleoandI actuallywantto put a proper
system.The CIOstartedby saying,overmydeadbody.We're on [inaudible
00:10:19] shop.We're stayingthere overmydeadbody.He got the CHR to
approve the project.The CEO saidfine.The CIOwentbehindtothe CEO and
canceledthe project.
ChrisRussell: Oh mygosh.
Jerome Ternyck: Thiswenton forseveral months.Finallytheygotthe greenlight,andthey
startedthe projectsix monthsago,and theyare now live in17 countries.And
thismorningI wason the phone to himand he saidJerome,youknow what
happenedthismorning?I'mlike no,what?He said,Iwas ina meetingandthe
CIO publiclypraisedme infrontof the CEO and said,"Youknow what? I realized
I was wrongto pushon that because the system'sreallygoodandatleastnow
I'm gettingmyresources."Because the CIOisactuallyoftenone of the
managersthat's sufferingthe mostfromrecruiting.SoIthinkit'sworththe fight
because youaren'tgoingto come outof that as a hiringsuccesshero,right?
Because the managersneedthe resources.Andif youcangive themgood
candidates,they're goingtolove youregardlessof how hardyou were fighting
for that system.Soit'sworthpickingthe battle.
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Page 5 of 13
ChrisRussell: Yeah,I love thatstory, Jerome.That'sawesome.That'sawesome.It'sgoodto
hearthat. All right.
ChrisRussell: I've done a lot of work latelyonthe userexperience of the candidate
experience,especiallyaroundmobile applyandhow alotof systemsoutthere
are broken.A lotof these olderATS'scome froma desktoperawhere theyforce
youto log intoapply,whichisa barriernumberone.Andyouhave to putin
your passwordtwice.Andyouhave tohave all these special charactersandit's
like all the jobseekerwantstodoat thatpointis uploada resume.Whyisitso
hard for othercompaniestofix this problemrightnow?Itseemslikeevensome
of the newerplatformsI've seendon'tdoagreat jobat the overall apply
process.Anythoughtsaroundhow to fix some of that stuff?
Jerome Ternyck: I meanone main[inaudible00:12:15] isthat our clickto applyratioacross all
customersis37%.
ChrisRussell: 37%. Okay.So breakthat downfor us.
Jerome Ternyck: We converge outof a hundredpeople whoclickonapply,37 actuallyendup
applying.Wow.Thatsame ratioat Taleoisfive.Letme translate thatin dollars,
that meansforthe same amountof candidatesyou're goingtohave to buy
seventimesmore trafficif you're onTaleosothat alone wouldactuallyjustifya
change of system.Sothere isa large,large numberor large gainsthat can be
made inthe apply.Andif youthinkof recruitingasmarketing,andI'm the CEO
and I come to youas the TA leaderand I go,so holdon,you're spendingour
moneytoadvertise jobtodrive trafficona page that hasa 5% conversionrate.
You shouldnotbe in yourwork,right?Like youshouldnotbe inthisposition.
Jerome Ternyck: If a CMO woulddothat, theygetfired,right?AndsoI wouldreallyencourage
TA leaderstoleverage thatargument.Wait,wait,thisdoesn'tmake anysense.
Plusthe oneswhoabandonfirstaren't the worstones.Theyare the bestone.
The onesthat are busy,the onesthat are on defense,the one thathada bad
day.These are the gains.Sonot onlyare youactuallyreducingyourROI,but
you're losingthe bestcandidate.Soit'sworse optimizing.
Jerome Ternyck: I thinkwhat'sdifficulthere isthe conceptof identitymanagement.How you
identify usersisatthe heartof yoursoftware.Andonce you've designeda
software toworkin a certainway,it's actuallyhardto change.It's like youbuild
a hotel andreceptionisthis,onthe corner of those twostreets.Andmaybe it
wouldmake sense thatreceptionissomewhere else,buteverythingislinkedto
that. SoI thinkfor legacysoftware it'svery,veryhardto change theirprinciple.
Andwe do it at SmartRecruiters,youjustdropyourresume.We actuallyeven
expose andapplyAPIsoyoucan dropyour resume directlyfromLinkedIninone
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Page 6 of 13
take withoutevertohave to touch anythingorfromIndeedorfrom Seek.We
actuallyjustreleasedthe Seekapply.Sowe're actuallyfacilitatingthe entrance.
Jerome Ternyck: Andthenonce you have applied,once you've expressedinterest,okay,nowlet's
talk.Andif you wouldlike to-
ChrisRussell: Yeah didn'tyouhave an 'I'm interested'buttonatone pointonthe platform?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.
ChrisRussell: It's still there isn'tit?
Jerome Ternyck: It isstill here.Yeah,we were the firstone toconvertor to change the applynow
intoI'm interested.
ChrisRussell: Right.
Jerome Ternyck: Because thisiswhat youdo as a candidate.You're notsayingI'm applying.Right.
Andyou're saying,Hey,let'stalk.I'm interested,andthatalone actually
increasedourconversionratesbya few percentage point.
ChrisRussell: I wouldsaytoo,at some pointforsome positionsyoudon'tevenneeda
resume,youknow if you're a janitoror a truck driver.If youjustget theirname,
phone number,email addressjusttocapture that information,thenyoucan
contact themafterwards.Doyousee that as a trendthat's goingto happenin
the nextfewyears?Asfar as the way some of these systemsdoapply's?
Jerome Ternyck: I think we're goingtosee the emergence of acentral identitymanagementand
a fewplatformsare at it.Facebookactuallymanagesyouridentityforalotof
setsituation.Google doesthe same.There'ssome initiativesnow where-
ChrisRussell: There'sa BlockchainI thinkjustcame out.
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,Blockchainthatjust came out ledbyYvette Cameron,whichwe lookedat.
I thinkit'sa goodidea.Generallythe factthatI carry my credential,mycareer-
ChrisRussell: Withyou.
Jerome Ternyck: Withme, it actuallymakesa lotof sense.Justthinkaboutit,youapplyto10
companies.All 10companiesare goingto ask youto do a backgroundcheck.For
God's sake,whydon't youdo the backgroundcheckbefore youapplyandthen
youdo it once?Ratherthan 10 times.There'salot of thingslike thisthatmakes
no sense.Ortake the example of abackgroundcheckbut I can say validated
skills.IapplyandI validatedmyskillsasa Java developer.Like whydoyoucare
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Page 7 of 13
if I didStanford,Harvard,or I wasself-educatedonYouTube.If Ican actuallybe
an amazingprogrammeronJava, youdon't needmyresume.
ChrisRussell: Exactly,exactly.
Jerome Ternyck: So I thinkwe're goingtosee a lot more of that happening.Synergizationof skills
and of resumes.
ChrisRussell: Excellent.What'snew inthe platform?Isaw youcame out witha self
schedulingfeature,buttell uswhatelse isnew withthe product.
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,so we actuallyjustwrappedupa good yearof innovationandbythe latest
count,we shipped200 featuresthisyear.
ChrisRussell: 200 features,wow.
Jerome Ternyck: 200 features.Andwe shipquarterly.Sothisquarterwe done a couple of good
things.Sosalesschedulingenmasse.Soif youwantto schedule certain
interviewsin30 seconds,that'syourfeature.Justselectthe candidates,click,
and watcheverybodybeingscheduled.Andscheduleinthe rightwaywiththe
rightscore card, the rightindication,the followupinthe morning,the followup
to the interviewertofillingthe scorecard,the reminderstothe candidate,the
whole infrastructure behind.It'snotjustschedule andinterview.It'slike
everythingthathappensbefore andafter.And soit'sreallynice.
Jerome Ternyck: We released[drip00:17:23] campaigns,whichispart of our CRM. So you
nurture candidates,whichfranklyif youactuallydoagoodjob at acquiringleads
and nurturingthemintobecomingcandidates.Wellwe actuallyhave acase
studywhere one juniormarketeeroutperformed10 professional sourcers.
Because whatwe've saidhere isokay,advertisingdoesn'twork,whichisnot
true by the way.Advertisingstill works.Advertisingdoesn'twork.Let'shire
sourcersand give thema database,LinkedIn.Andthenpickupthe phone,smile
while youdial in,hope youremailsare okay.Thisisexactlyasif we'dsay to
salespeople "Hey,yougetnomarketingandhere'saphone book."Thisishow
saleswasdone 40 yearsago. The realityisyouactuallycan collectnew
marketing,collectleadsandgetpeoplein,nurture them, bringthemas
prospect,whichmakesalot more sense.Sonurture campaignsisanotherone.
Jerome Ternyck: We releasedanautomatedjobdistribution.SoearlyonI made the decisionnot
to relyon[inaudible 00:18:27] distributionsystemsbuttoactuallycontrol the
jobadvertisingfromwithinSmartRecruiterswhichisreallynicebecause we now
distribute tothousandsof jobboards,andwe're the onlyone that has a proper
clickto hire tracking.So we know exactlythe costof a candidate,the costof an
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Page 8 of 13
interviewedcandidate,the costof a hire,the qualityratio,how manylike,and
so-
ChrisRussell: You had that backin the beginningtoo,Iremember.
Jerome Ternyck: Exactly.Andso now we createda feature toactuallycentrallyautomate all of
that, andso you setup rolesthatthe salesjobgo to thisjobboard, the
marketingjobgoto thisone.You actuallyhave rulesthatare basedondynamic
pipelines.Soif I receive lessthan10candidatesafterone week,thenupmybid
or increase orpost to LinkedIn.Sothisallowsforteamstocontrol and to
optimize theiradvertisingbudget.
Jerome Ternyck: We have our programmaticadvertisingthatactuallyisexpandingglobally.So
we announceda few more markets.Thisiswhere we actuallyprogrammatically
optimize the budgetof ourcustomersbasedonreal-
ChrisRussell: So you're doingsome programmaticnow?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,we do. Andunlike anyotherprogrammaticoffering,we know what's
happening,likewe know thatlastweekyouinterviewedtwocandidatesthat
got ratedhighand one of themmovedtooffer.Andsothe last thingyouneedis
to spendmore moneytoactuallygetmore new candidatesonthisjobbecause
youdon't needmore candidates.Indeeddoesn'tknow this.TMPdoesn'tknow
this.Recruitersdon'treactto it so forthe firsttime youhave a programmatic
engine that'spluggedontoyourpipelineandactuallydynamicallyoptimizenot
onlywhere youspendmoneybutonwhichjoband how much youspend.So
the savingshere are really,reallyinteresting.
Jerome Ternyck: Andthenwe extendedourSmartAssistance.Sowe have AIbasedmatching,
whichisvery,verynice.We expandedlanguages.Sowe releasedFrenchand
Germanas additional languages-
ChrisRussell: So the matchingsare whena candidate comesin,youscore them, and surface
the top candidates?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,we use thismachine learningfortwo things.One isall resumescome in,
we read the resumes,we analyze the resumes,we enhance the resumes,and
we applythe scoring.Andwe applythe scoringindependentof anybiassuchas
your name,youraddressor where youmaybe from, how oldyouare and soon.
So we actuallybythat remove all the prescreeningbias,whichismassivein
mostorganizationtothisday. There isactuallya surveythatcome out by the
BBC recentlywhere ahundredresumes,same resume gotsenttocompanies.It
was inthe UK, Adamgot 10 interviews,Mohammedgotfour.Same resume
right?Nowthat, the AIdoesn'tcare if you're calledAdamor Mohammed.And
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Page 9 of 13
so the same scoringand if you have the same scoringbecomesreallyhardto
justifythatAdamand Mohammedare not gettingbothinterview.Sowe are
removingthisbiasandof course acceleratingthe resume screeningbecause you
getyour scoresand youcan reacton it. Youcan automate.
Jerome Ternyck: Andthe secondthingis we use thisto discovercandidates.Whenyouopena
job,we go back to all your candidatesandyouremployees,andwe actually
surface matchingonessothat whenyousay to a candidate,"Sorryitdidn'twork
out,but if we everhave a job thatmatchesyour skill we'll contactyou."Well
actuallythat'sexactlywhatthe IS is,it actuallysurfacesthe candidatesthat
you've talkedtointhe past and bringsthemforward.Sothat SmartAssistantas
we call it, hasbeena massive time saver,sourcingsaver,reductionof bias
actuallyforeverybody.
ChrisRussell: I heara lotof TA leaderstalkaboutautomationandtryingtomake thingsmore
efficient,save time forthe recruiters.Anditsoundslike you're reallypushinga
lotof those typesof features,the productjusttosave time and automate as
much as possible whilestillbeingcandidate friendly.Right?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah we wantto leverage automationtogive time backto the recruitersto
make it more human,more collaborative andtoa certainextentautomationis
your friendhere.Because the twohoursare savedschedulinginterviewsistwo
hoursI couldspendfollowingupwithpeoplewhowere interviewedyesterday
and are keenlywaitingtohearwhathas happened.Justassimple asthat.The
automationis,Heyactuallythose 17 candidatesare still instage new,they've
beenthere forfive days.Duh.Whatare you doing?Right?Sothat's also
automation.Ican rejectthemall if youwant, butyou can alsolookat them.
Jerome Ternyck: Justhelpingrecruitersdeal withthe volumessothatactuallytheycan dowhat
theywant,whichisoffercandidatesanamazingexperience.Idon'tthinkany
recruiterinthe worldgetsintotheirjobthinkingmyjobinlife istooffera shitty
candidate experience.It'sjustthe consequencesof thembeingoverwhelmedby
lack of technologyandjusttoomany thingshappening.
ChrisRussell: Yeah,definitely.Iwantto ask aboutGoogle fora minute.Couplefrontsthere.
Google forjobs.Were youan earlyadopterof that intermsof pushingyour
clients'jobstothat? Andsecondly,whatkindof trafficare youseeingfromthat
particularplatformitself?
Jerome Ternyck: So yes,we were anearlyadopter,part of the initial launchactuallyworkingwith
Google onthat in proximity.Imeantheyare a few milesfromhere,sothat's
good.I thinkGoogle needs,andthisfeedbackwe have giventhem, theystill
needtoidentifyproperlywhoisthe ATS.Fornow theyare applyingaGoogle
methodology,whichisIwantto buy a flightfromParistoSan Francisco.Then
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Page 10 of 13
theyjusttell me yeah,youcan do thisone and thenI have Expediaandthisand
thisand that.But the problemhere isthatthisisnot aboutbookinga flight.
Ultimatelyif you're lookingforajob andyou findsomethingatVisa,they're
goingto sendyouto SmartRecruiters,ZipRecruiter,Glassdoor,Indeed,LinkedIn
...But the truthis whereveryougo,youactuallyare goingto endupat
SmartRecruiterbecause that'show youapplytoa jobat Visa.
Jerome Ternyck: Andso I thinkthisisone optimizationthatGoogle,andIknow they've been
workingonit andit's not an easyproblemtosolve.Theyhave tomake the life
of candidateseasierandinsteadof "selling"sendingtraffictointermediaries
here to actuallyallow candidatestogostraightto the source.Andif theydo
that, they'll getcorporate recruiterswaymore interested.Because todaymost
of myGoogle forjobs trafficishiddenbehindLinkedIn,Glassdoor,Indeed,and
the othersbecause theyare the onesreceivingtraffic.
ChrisRussell: Yeah.Do you thinkGoogle will evertryto monetize Googleforjobs?There's
speculationoutthere thattheywill.Idon'tthinktheywill butwhat'syourtake?
Jerome Ternyck: Oh yeah,Ithinktheywill.
ChrisRussell: You thinktheywill.
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.I thinktheywill.Funnyenoughisactuallyjusttalkingtosomeone there,
and we were talkingaboutourprogrammaticadvertisingsolutionthere.Oh,this
isreallyinteresting.Where doyougettrafficfrom?Isaid we getat this...and
thenI added "We're waitingforyouguysto openpay perclickon Google for
jobs."AndI had a bigsmile onthe face of that Google employee becauseyeah,
of course ...I thinkthey're goingtodo it.But to do that theyhave to be able to
knowwhoare theysellingto.Are theygoingtosell traffictothirdpartiesorare
theygoingto sell traffictoemployers?AndIthinkthatthat debate maybe has
beendecidedatGoogle buthasn'tbeenannounced.Idon'tthinkit'sclear yet.
ChrisRussell: Yeah,yeah.Were yousurprisedaboutthe Google forHire shutdown?
Jerome Ternyck: I was andI wasn't.
ChrisRussell: Because thatkindof seemslike ...Theyjustdidn'treallygetthatmarketmaybe
interms of sellinginto,Idon'tknow.
Jerome Ternyck: So Google Hire started outof an attemptto increase retentionandaddmore
value forthe Google customers,andmeantto be as one of manyapps that they
wouldactuallybuild.Aneasyuse case if youhave collaboration.Idon'tthink
that wasevera real pushto saywe're going to be the hiringplatformthat's
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Page 11 of 13
goingto win.Andso I didnotsee the corporate commitmentbehindthat
initiative.Thatwouldreally-
ChrisRussell: Right.Justnot theirheartintoit.
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.I don't thinkso.Andso resourceswere reallocated,productdoesn'tget
supported,andtheyshutitdown.I thinkit'sone of the qualitiesof Google
actually.Theyknow whentosay stop,andI see that's payingoff.Now will
Google keepaddingmore toolstotheirbusinesscustomer?Ihope so.I'm a big
Google userand bigGoogle fan.We use the whole GSuite here at
SmartRecruitersandit'sgreat.Do theyget intoadvancedbusinessapplication
like recruiting?That'sastep.
ChrisRussell: How aboutFacebook?Idon't know,theycame out withtheirFacebookjob
board.They're startingto workon some ATS's now.I'm notsure if you're a part
of thatat all.Buttell me more about yourrelationshipwithFacebookJobsitself.
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,so again,we were part of that initial integration,initial launch.Soall the
jobsare pushedtoFacebookJobs.We actuallydidquite some workonour end
to identifyandtoallow customerstopointthe rightjobsto the rightpages.
Because it'sverynice if you are SmartRecruitersthenyourjobsgoto your
SmartRecruiterspage.Youare a small company,youwill recruit100 people a
year.That's all cute and cool.
Jerome Ternyck: But if you're Bosch, andyou have 900 legal entitiesaroundthe world,then
chancesare youhave more thanone Facebookpage and now actually
discerningfromacentral ATS,whichjob's go towhichparts of yourFacebook
pagesisan interestingquestion.Sowe actuallybuiltaFacebookJobs
managementmodule thatreallydirectsthe rightjobstothe rightFacebook
pagesand the rightbrands.
ChrisRussell: Doesthe user have to authenticate theirpage withyouguys?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.So theyactuallydoauthenticate asthe administrator,adminof thatpage
on Facebookandthenit's synchronized.Sothat'snice.Facebookontheirend
didsome workon 'ApplywithFacebook'.Soyoucan applydirectlyfrom
FacebooktoSmartRecruitersandenhancingthis.We actuallyhave some more
initiativegoingonatthe HiringSuccessconference intwoweeks.We have a
hackathon.So we have 20 teamscompetinginthe hackathon.And-
ChrisRussell: Are these yourdevelopers?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,so we have some of our developers.We have customersbringing
developers.SoSquare wasbringingindevelopers.There'sdiscussionabout
Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast
Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20)
Transcript by Rev.com
Page 12 of 13
Facebookactuallybringinginpeople andothersthatwill be soonannounced,
but some bigbrands.LinkedInof course whoare scalingat LinkedInor
deployingatLinkedIn.Andthey're connectingSmartRecruitersdeeplyintotheir
system.Soone of our core principle hasbeenAPIfirst.Sowe have avery
powerful developmentenvironment,whichallowsmore sophisticated
customerstobuildcustomintegrations,customexperiencesfortheirusersorin
the case of LinkedIntoactuallymerge whattheygetfroman ATS where they're
fromtheirownsystemto actuallyoptimize theirownrecruitingprocess.
ChrisRussell: Yeah.You're sucha energetic,passionate supporterof hiringingeneral.Where
doesthiscome from, Jerome?Where'sthe earlyseedof helpingpeople get
jobs,andhelpingcompaniesrecruitbettercome from?
Jerome Ternyck: It's interestingbecause Itrulythinkthatwasmy callinginlife.It'sreallyvery
interesting,anditwasmy firstjob.My very,veryfirstjob.I wantedtocreate a
company.I wenttoPrague in the CzechRepublic.I'mfromFrance.Andat the
time CzechRepublic,like the restof the formerSovietblockwasexpanding,and
it waslotsof opportunities.Igotto Prague,andI startedto ask people,what
can you dohere?What are some goodbusinessideas?Andeverybodyhadone
similartalktrack,whichwas,Oh, youcan do anythingbutgee,it'shard to hire
goodpeople.SoIdidn'thave any money.AndsoI said,well maybe Icouldstart
a recruitmentagency.
Jerome Ternyck: Andthere I was23 yearold,I didn'tspeaka wordof Czech.AndI started-
ChrisRussell: You were 23 inPrague.You started yourownrecruitingagency?
Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,and I startedplacingpeople.What'sreallyinterestingatthat time isthat
all of the candidateshadzeroexperience educationinanyfieldrelevanttothe
marketeconomythatmy customerswere lookingfor.SoyouhadL'Oreal
comingand say,I needa marketingmanagerwithatleastfive yearsexperience
and a degree inmarketingandspeakinggoodEnglish.AndIwouldsay,well
nobodyhasfive yearsexperience inmarketinginthiscountrybecause fiveyears
ago there wasno marketing.Ohshit,okay,you're right.Nobodyhasa degree in
marketingbecause there isnomarketingdegreesinanyCzechuniversityatthe
time.Imightbe able tofindyousomeone thatspeaksEnglishiscreative andwe
thinkcouldbe a good marketer.
Jerome Ternyck: Andthose roots of actuallybeingina positiontofigure outwhatcoulda person
be good at independentof anythingtheyhaddone before iswhatgave me the
passionforrecruiting.Andtothisday,I will fight.Inscorecardfor example,
whenyouevaluate candidates,don'tevaluatecandidatesonthe musthaves,
evaluate themonmustachieves.Backtomy example,if Icancode in Javalike a
God, doyou care if I wentto Stanfordor I learneditonYouTube?Youdon't. So
Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast
Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20)
Transcript by Rev.com
Page 13 of 13
don't make a scorecardthat says degree froma greatuniversity,five years
experience,thisisirrelevant.Make ascorecard that saysamazingJava coder,
goodteam player.Create.Okaygreat.Sonow you can evaluate me onscenes
that I can achieve.Andthat has stayedwithme.
Jerome Ternyck: To thisday I lookat recruiting,Ijustwantto match people tojobsat [inaudible
00:32:39]. I thinkit'sa technologyproblemandIthinkit'sa problemthatcan
and will be solvedbyatechnologyplayer.AndI'dlike forSmartRecruiterstobe
that player.
ChrisRussell: Awesome.Andlastquestionforyou,Jerome.Whatwouldthe Jerome of today
tell the Jerome of 2011 whenyoufirststartedaround this,aboutwhatyou've
learnedalongthisjourney?
Jerome Ternyck: So if the Jerome of today,professionally,Iwouldsaygetintechfaster.I spent
the first10 years doinga recruitmentagency.Ihadgoodsuccess.We endedup
withlike 300 people inthe companyandit was all nice.Butin the endwe were
justhelpingone personata time.AndIthinkI wouldhave lovedtogetintotech
a bit earlier.Onmymanagementandmyownpersonal leadership,Icome from
a place of vulnerabilityandauthenticitythese daysthatIdidnot have the
courage,the experience tohave back whenI was25. Whenyou're 25 you want
to conquerthe worldand you're protectingyourself.Youare notself-confident.
AndI realizedoverthe yearsthatvulnerabilityandauthenticityare justreally
core leadershipskills.I'mhere andwiththe team.I reallylove mySmartians,the
whole reasonwhywe are here.SoI'm drivenbypurpose andleadingby
authenticityandvulnerability.Sothat'sone thingI wouldadvise myself.
ChrisRussell: Awesome,well Jerome Ternyck,thankyouverymuchforyourtime today.
Jerome Ternyck: Well,thankyouso muchfor havingme.
Speaker2: Anotherepisodeof RecTechisinthe books.Follow ChrisonTwitter
@ChrisRussellorvisitRecTechmedia.comwhere youcanfindthe audioand
linksforthisshow on our blog.RecTechmediahelpskeepemployersand
recruitersupto date throughour podcasts,webinars,andarticles.Sobe sure to
checkout our othersites,recruitingheadlines,andHR podcasterstostay ontop
of recruitingindustrytrends.Thanksforlisteningandwe'll seeyousoononthe
nextepisode of RecTech,the recruitingtechnologypodcast.

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Transcript SmartRecruiters CEO Jerome Ternyck Podcast Interview

  • 1. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 1 of 13 ChrisRussell: The CEO of smart recruiters.That'snextonthe RecTech Podcast. Speaker2: Welcome toRecTech,the podcastwhere recruitingandtechnologyintersect. Each month you'll hearfromvendorsshapingthe recruitingworldalongwith recruiterswho'll tell youhow theyuse technologytohire talent.Now here's your host,the mad scientistof onlinerecruiting,ChrisRussell. ChrisRussell: Heyeveryone,you're listeningtothe onlypodcastthathelpsemployersand recruitersconnectwithmore candidatesthroughtechnology-inspired conversations.We are all aboutthe new toolsand tactics to landyou more talent.Today'sepisode isavendoredition. ChrisRussell: The RecTech Podcastissponsoredinpart byour friendsatEmissary.ai,the text recruitingplatform.Yournextsuperstarisindemandandonthe move. Emissaryisthe easiestway toconnectwiththemfasterandmore effectively wherevertheyare.Soif youhaven'tembeddedtextingintoyourrecruiting processyet,whatare youwaitingfor?It's definitelysomethingthat'sas a channel,today'semployersneedtocommunicate more effectivelywiththere candidatesandprospects.Goto emissary.ai andscheduleademotoday. ChrisRussell: We're also sponsoredbyourfriendsatWorkHere.com, the hyper-local candidate deliverytool throughgeo-fencingappplatform.Youcan reachmore people throughtheironline adswithpinpointprecisionwhere theylive,work and shop.WorkHere will advertise yourjobsonthe screenscandidatesuse the most,theirmobile phone.Andmessagingisthendeliveredintothe social mobile appstheyuse mostoften.HeadovertoWorkHere.comandbe sure to tell themhearditthe RecTechpodcast. ChrisRussell: All right,sotoday's audioisan interview withJeromeTernyck,CEOof SmartRecruiters,one of myfavorite ATS'soutthere.The firstone I everused actuallyas a recruiter.Isat downfor himat theirSan Franciscoofficesfora30 minute conversation,andIthinkyou're reallygoingtoenjoythisone.He was veryopenand honestandauthenticashe alwaysisand enjoythe audio. ChrisRussell: Okay.I'm here withJerome Ternyck,CEOof SmartRecruitersintheirSan FranciscoofficesonBushStreetandhad a chance to come downhere afterthe TA weekeventsandcome see Jerome.He'salwaysbeeninvitingme outhere and finallygotachance to make itto San Fran and SmartRecruiter.SoJerome, firstof all,it's greatto see youagain and how'slife today? Jerome Ternyck: Likewise.Thanksforhavingme onthe show.Andyeah,life isgood.Life isgood. You're actuallycatchingme todayon Januarythe 30th whichisexactly24 hours before the endof our fiscal yearsowe're busysigningdealsleftandright, rushingintothe endof the yearpreparingbudgets.AndIthinkonFriday
  • 2. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 2 of 13 eveningeverybodywillbe restingforweekend.Butjustforthe weekend, because we have ourHiringSuccessconference comingupintwoweeksonFeb 11 and 12. Whenwe'll have athousandpeople cominghere andsowe're excited.It'sbusytime here. ChrisRussell: Yeah,definitely.Quickhistorylessonforpeople whoknow me.SmartRecruiters was the veryfirstATSI everusedas it recruitedbackin2014-ish around there.I pickedthembecause theyseemedtobe amodernplatformbackthen,and they still are.Theyhadan app and thingslike thatat the time,whichwere pretty new.I've alwayskindof admiredSmartRecruitersfromafaranyway,andalsoas a user inthat time.Butjustgive the audience asense of where youguysare nowin termsof customerbase and employee-wise andthingslikethat.Justgive us a quickoverview. Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.So we startedthe companyin 2011. We spentfouryears inR&D and reallywhatwe were building,whatwe aimed[inaudible00:00:03:36]. Okay, whatis a generational successortoapplicanttrackingsystems?Applicant trackingsystemswere bornoutof we needtoautomate the file cabinet. Resumeswere paperbased;the internetarrived.OhmyGod, candidatescanfill informs,and I can track themin a system.Butthiswhole ideathatpeople are actuallytrackedas applicantsina systemlike eventhe name iswrong.Applicant trackingsystemdoesn'tsayhire amazingpeople system. Jerome Ternyck: Andhavingbuildmyself anATSbetween2000 and2010 whenI started SmartRecruiters,Iwaslike,okay,reallygettingready.Take ablanksheetof paperand whatdo we want to getout here?Andsowe landedonthree core thingsthat are talentacquisitionsuiteshoulddo.One,itshouldhelpme attract candidates.Thatspeakstomarketingandhow you attract candidatesand advertisingandreferralsandgoodwebsite andgoodcandidate experience.And there'sa whole lotof thingsthatneedto be done inthe area of CRMand marketingandso on. Jerome Ternyck: Second,we saidmanagershave touse itand we have to double downon collaborationbecause recruiters cannotbe successfulif the managersaren't playingwiththemintheirsystem.Andsowe focusedoncollaboration,hiring managerengagement,scorecardscheduling,makingmore thatprocesslike supersmoothand efficient.Andthird,it'saboutrecruiterandrecruiter productivity.Andrecruitersnowadays,they're beingaskedtomove mountains, but theyhave toolsandtechnologiesfromdecadesago. ChrisRussell: They're beingheldback. Jerome Ternyck: Andthey're completelyheldback,absolutely.Sogiving recruitersall of their data processesandsuppliersinone systemwhere theycanbe incontrol and
  • 3. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 3 of 13 compliance.Andsothose three things,recruiterproductivity,hiringmanager engagement,andcandidate experience iswhatwe designedtospend...we spentalmostfourand a half yearsjustdevelopingthe product.We launchedit in2015 so that's five yearsagonow.And we've now since thensignedjustshy of a thousandenterprisecustomers.We have several thousandsmaller companiesusingourplatformonvariouscapacity,butreallythe enterprise segmentathousandcustomers,thisiswhere we actuallymake ourmoney.Our revenue are made there. Jerome Ternyck: Some bignames,we have companieslike Visa,Bosch,whichhaslike 400,000 employees.EvenLinkedInusesusnow as their[inaudible00:05:56] as they're implementingTwitter.Soreallylarge progressive companiesthatare using SmartRecruiters.We have 300 employeesworldwide.We raised$100 millionof equitymoneyfromvariousinvestors,Salesforce beingone of ourinvestors.So we're reallylookingathey,recruitingisnotthisadministrative automated functionaswe thoughtin the past.It's actuallya fairlysalesandmarketing orientedfunction.It'sa competitive advantage tocompanieswoulddo itwell. What's the platformthat doesthat?Andthisis whatwe deliver. ChrisRussell: Excellent.Whatdoyouthinkof the overall activityhappeninginthe market itself asfar as HR techgoes,all the mergersand acquisitionsyou're seeing biggerplayersgroupupsmallerplayerstobe an all encompassingplatform. What's your overall senseof where we are now inHR tech? Jerome Ternyck: I thinkwe're ina very,veryexcitingtime of HRtech.Andthat is ontwo counts. On the core HR, there'sa replacementcycle happeningwithenormous efficiencygainsandautomationopportunitiesandthatcharge isledby Workdayin core HR and there'smuchmore happeningthere.AndIthinkthere we're reallyseeingaveryclassicreplacementcycle of oldschool HRsystems. Jerome Ternyck: On the recruitingside,we're actuallyseeingareal shiftof marketbecause we are goingawayfrom, Hey youapply,youare screenedandthenmaybe youget the job.We're goingintothisisa full scale salesandmarketingfunctionand TA leadersare becomingmarketers,marketersincampaigns,innurturing,in sourcing,inreferrals,inhow theyorganize it.It'smore collaborative.Sothere's a whole setof a new generationof TA leadersthatare actuallyemerging. Jerome Ternyck: Andit's interestingbecause inHRtech,the worldhere dividesbetweentwo typesof tierleaders.Those whoare goingto be swallowedinside the HR system.Andit'sbasicallyohyouuse Taleo,Iknow thisrecruitingsystemfrom workthere.SAPisnot better,butyou've beenonTaleoforages.Justshut up and keep,keepyourlife.Andthat'sbasicallysayingrecruitingisanadmin process.I don'tcare about winningthe besttalent,I'mjustprocessingresume here and fillingseats.
  • 4. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 4 of 13 Jerome Ternyck: The other generationof tierleadersare like,noactuallyguys,if youinvestin recruiting,Ican deliverbettercandidatesandif youhave betterpeople than your competitor,we're goingtowinasa company.Andso how do we actually take recruitingandmake thisa competitive advantage,whichthenjustifiesa propertalentacquisitionsuite thatfocusesonhow youattract, select,andhire amazingtalentat scale.Andwhenyougoto the CEO andyou say,wouldyou like tohave hiringsuccess?Wouldyoulike tobe able to hire amazingtalenton demand?Like yousee the eyesare becomingreallyexcitedhere becauseyes, everyCEOin the worldwouldlike tobe able tohire amazingtalentondemand. Theyjustdon't know how to do it.Andwhenit getsgobbledintoHRand into processesandback office functions,it'sarace to the bottom.It's faster, cheaper. ChrisRussell: I can't tell youhow many TA leadersI've metwhosayI'm juststuck withthis ATS,usuallyit'sTaleo,let'sbe honest.Andthey're paralyzed.They're afraidof that change,andmany timestheyjustdon'twantto do it.They don'twant to make that plunge.Andthose are the oneswhoare goingto get swallowed, right? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.Theydefinitelyare gettingswallowed,butit'sworse fightingforitbecause well,Ihadthe example thismorningactually.Iwasona phone witha TA leader of a 95,000 employeecompany.Andthey'vebeenonTaleoforever.A company, verydecentralized,notalotof powerincorporate HR, and thisone personwent on a war to say,I want to replace TaleoandI actuallywantto put a proper system.The CIOstartedby saying,overmydeadbody.We're on [inaudible 00:10:19] shop.We're stayingthere overmydeadbody.He got the CHR to approve the project.The CEO saidfine.The CIOwentbehindtothe CEO and canceledthe project. ChrisRussell: Oh mygosh. Jerome Ternyck: Thiswenton forseveral months.Finallytheygotthe greenlight,andthey startedthe projectsix monthsago,and theyare now live in17 countries.And thismorningI wason the phone to himand he saidJerome,youknow what happenedthismorning?I'mlike no,what?He said,Iwas ina meetingandthe CIO publiclypraisedme infrontof the CEO and said,"Youknow what? I realized I was wrongto pushon that because the system'sreallygoodandatleastnow I'm gettingmyresources."Because the CIOisactuallyoftenone of the managersthat's sufferingthe mostfromrecruiting.SoIthinkit'sworththe fight because youaren'tgoingto come outof that as a hiringsuccesshero,right? Because the managersneedthe resources.Andif youcangive themgood candidates,they're goingtolove youregardlessof how hardyou were fighting for that system.Soit'sworthpickingthe battle.
  • 5. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 5 of 13 ChrisRussell: Yeah,I love thatstory, Jerome.That'sawesome.That'sawesome.It'sgoodto hearthat. All right. ChrisRussell: I've done a lot of work latelyonthe userexperience of the candidate experience,especiallyaroundmobile applyandhow alotof systemsoutthere are broken.A lotof these olderATS'scome froma desktoperawhere theyforce youto log intoapply,whichisa barriernumberone.Andyouhave to putin your passwordtwice.Andyouhave tohave all these special charactersandit's like all the jobseekerwantstodoat thatpointis uploada resume.Whyisitso hard for othercompaniestofix this problemrightnow?Itseemslikeevensome of the newerplatformsI've seendon'tdoagreat jobat the overall apply process.Anythoughtsaroundhow to fix some of that stuff? Jerome Ternyck: I meanone main[inaudible00:12:15] isthat our clickto applyratioacross all customersis37%. ChrisRussell: 37%. Okay.So breakthat downfor us. Jerome Ternyck: We converge outof a hundredpeople whoclickonapply,37 actuallyendup applying.Wow.Thatsame ratioat Taleoisfive.Letme translate thatin dollars, that meansforthe same amountof candidatesyou're goingtohave to buy seventimesmore trafficif you're onTaleosothat alone wouldactuallyjustifya change of system.Sothere isa large,large numberor large gainsthat can be made inthe apply.Andif youthinkof recruitingasmarketing,andI'm the CEO and I come to youas the TA leaderand I go,so holdon,you're spendingour moneytoadvertise jobtodrive trafficona page that hasa 5% conversionrate. You shouldnotbe in yourwork,right?Like youshouldnotbe inthisposition. Jerome Ternyck: If a CMO woulddothat, theygetfired,right?AndsoI wouldreallyencourage TA leaderstoleverage thatargument.Wait,wait,thisdoesn'tmake anysense. Plusthe oneswhoabandonfirstaren't the worstones.Theyare the bestone. The onesthat are busy,the onesthat are on defense,the one thathada bad day.These are the gains.Sonot onlyare youactuallyreducingyourROI,but you're losingthe bestcandidate.Soit'sworse optimizing. Jerome Ternyck: I thinkwhat'sdifficulthere isthe conceptof identitymanagement.How you identify usersisatthe heartof yoursoftware.Andonce you've designeda software toworkin a certainway,it's actuallyhardto change.It's like youbuild a hotel andreceptionisthis,onthe corner of those twostreets.Andmaybe it wouldmake sense thatreceptionissomewhere else,buteverythingislinkedto that. SoI thinkfor legacysoftware it'svery,veryhardto change theirprinciple. Andwe do it at SmartRecruiters,youjustdropyourresume.We actuallyeven expose andapplyAPIsoyoucan dropyour resume directlyfromLinkedIninone
  • 6. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 6 of 13 take withoutevertohave to touch anythingorfromIndeedorfrom Seek.We actuallyjustreleasedthe Seekapply.Sowe're actuallyfacilitatingthe entrance. Jerome Ternyck: Andthenonce you have applied,once you've expressedinterest,okay,nowlet's talk.Andif you wouldlike to- ChrisRussell: Yeah didn'tyouhave an 'I'm interested'buttonatone pointonthe platform? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah. ChrisRussell: It's still there isn'tit? Jerome Ternyck: It isstill here.Yeah,we were the firstone toconvertor to change the applynow intoI'm interested. ChrisRussell: Right. Jerome Ternyck: Because thisiswhat youdo as a candidate.You're notsayingI'm applying.Right. Andyou're saying,Hey,let'stalk.I'm interested,andthatalone actually increasedourconversionratesbya few percentage point. ChrisRussell: I wouldsaytoo,at some pointforsome positionsyoudon'tevenneeda resume,youknow if you're a janitoror a truck driver.If youjustget theirname, phone number,email addressjusttocapture that information,thenyoucan contact themafterwards.Doyousee that as a trendthat's goingto happenin the nextfewyears?Asfar as the way some of these systemsdoapply's? Jerome Ternyck: I think we're goingtosee the emergence of acentral identitymanagementand a fewplatformsare at it.Facebookactuallymanagesyouridentityforalotof setsituation.Google doesthe same.There'ssome initiativesnow where- ChrisRussell: There'sa BlockchainI thinkjustcame out. Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,Blockchainthatjust came out ledbyYvette Cameron,whichwe lookedat. I thinkit'sa goodidea.Generallythe factthatI carry my credential,mycareer- ChrisRussell: Withyou. Jerome Ternyck: Withme, it actuallymakesa lotof sense.Justthinkaboutit,youapplyto10 companies.All 10companiesare goingto ask youto do a backgroundcheck.For God's sake,whydon't youdo the backgroundcheckbefore youapplyandthen youdo it once?Ratherthan 10 times.There'salot of thingslike thisthatmakes no sense.Ortake the example of abackgroundcheckbut I can say validated skills.IapplyandI validatedmyskillsasa Java developer.Like whydoyoucare
  • 7. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 7 of 13 if I didStanford,Harvard,or I wasself-educatedonYouTube.If Ican actuallybe an amazingprogrammeronJava, youdon't needmyresume. ChrisRussell: Exactly,exactly. Jerome Ternyck: So I thinkwe're goingtosee a lot more of that happening.Synergizationof skills and of resumes. ChrisRussell: Excellent.What'snew inthe platform?Isaw youcame out witha self schedulingfeature,buttell uswhatelse isnew withthe product. Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,so we actuallyjustwrappedupa good yearof innovationandbythe latest count,we shipped200 featuresthisyear. ChrisRussell: 200 features,wow. Jerome Ternyck: 200 features.Andwe shipquarterly.Sothisquarterwe done a couple of good things.Sosalesschedulingenmasse.Soif youwantto schedule certain interviewsin30 seconds,that'syourfeature.Justselectthe candidates,click, and watcheverybodybeingscheduled.Andscheduleinthe rightwaywiththe rightscore card, the rightindication,the followupinthe morning,the followup to the interviewertofillingthe scorecard,the reminderstothe candidate,the whole infrastructure behind.It'snotjustschedule andinterview.It'slike everythingthathappensbefore andafter.And soit'sreallynice. Jerome Ternyck: We released[drip00:17:23] campaigns,whichispart of our CRM. So you nurture candidates,whichfranklyif youactuallydoagoodjob at acquiringleads and nurturingthemintobecomingcandidates.Wellwe actuallyhave acase studywhere one juniormarketeeroutperformed10 professional sourcers. Because whatwe've saidhere isokay,advertisingdoesn'twork,whichisnot true by the way.Advertisingstill works.Advertisingdoesn'twork.Let'shire sourcersand give thema database,LinkedIn.Andthenpickupthe phone,smile while youdial in,hope youremailsare okay.Thisisexactlyasif we'dsay to salespeople "Hey,yougetnomarketingandhere'saphone book."Thisishow saleswasdone 40 yearsago. The realityisyouactuallycan collectnew marketing,collectleadsandgetpeoplein,nurture them, bringthemas prospect,whichmakesalot more sense.Sonurture campaignsisanotherone. Jerome Ternyck: We releasedanautomatedjobdistribution.SoearlyonI made the decisionnot to relyon[inaudible 00:18:27] distributionsystemsbuttoactuallycontrol the jobadvertisingfromwithinSmartRecruiterswhichisreallynicebecause we now distribute tothousandsof jobboards,andwe're the onlyone that has a proper clickto hire tracking.So we know exactlythe costof a candidate,the costof an
  • 8. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 8 of 13 interviewedcandidate,the costof a hire,the qualityratio,how manylike,and so- ChrisRussell: You had that backin the beginningtoo,Iremember. Jerome Ternyck: Exactly.Andso now we createda feature toactuallycentrallyautomate all of that, andso you setup rolesthatthe salesjobgo to thisjobboard, the marketingjobgoto thisone.You actuallyhave rulesthatare basedondynamic pipelines.Soif I receive lessthan10candidatesafterone week,thenupmybid or increase orpost to LinkedIn.Sothisallowsforteamstocontrol and to optimize theiradvertisingbudget. Jerome Ternyck: We have our programmaticadvertisingthatactuallyisexpandingglobally.So we announceda few more markets.Thisiswhere we actuallyprogrammatically optimize the budgetof ourcustomersbasedonreal- ChrisRussell: So you're doingsome programmaticnow? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,we do. Andunlike anyotherprogrammaticoffering,we know what's happening,likewe know thatlastweekyouinterviewedtwocandidatesthat got ratedhighand one of themmovedtooffer.Andsothe last thingyouneedis to spendmore moneytoactuallygetmore new candidatesonthisjobbecause youdon't needmore candidates.Indeeddoesn'tknow this.TMPdoesn'tknow this.Recruitersdon'treactto it so forthe firsttime youhave a programmatic engine that'spluggedontoyourpipelineandactuallydynamicallyoptimizenot onlywhere youspendmoneybutonwhichjoband how much youspend.So the savingshere are really,reallyinteresting. Jerome Ternyck: Andthenwe extendedourSmartAssistance.Sowe have AIbasedmatching, whichisvery,verynice.We expandedlanguages.Sowe releasedFrenchand Germanas additional languages- ChrisRussell: So the matchingsare whena candidate comesin,youscore them, and surface the top candidates? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,we use thismachine learningfortwo things.One isall resumescome in, we read the resumes,we analyze the resumes,we enhance the resumes,and we applythe scoring.Andwe applythe scoringindependentof anybiassuchas your name,youraddressor where youmaybe from, how oldyouare and soon. So we actuallybythat remove all the prescreeningbias,whichismassivein mostorganizationtothisday. There isactuallya surveythatcome out by the BBC recentlywhere ahundredresumes,same resume gotsenttocompanies.It was inthe UK, Adamgot 10 interviews,Mohammedgotfour.Same resume right?Nowthat, the AIdoesn'tcare if you're calledAdamor Mohammed.And
  • 9. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 9 of 13 so the same scoringand if you have the same scoringbecomesreallyhardto justifythatAdamand Mohammedare not gettingbothinterview.Sowe are removingthisbiasandof course acceleratingthe resume screeningbecause you getyour scoresand youcan reacton it. Youcan automate. Jerome Ternyck: Andthe secondthingis we use thisto discovercandidates.Whenyouopena job,we go back to all your candidatesandyouremployees,andwe actually surface matchingonessothat whenyousay to a candidate,"Sorryitdidn'twork out,but if we everhave a job thatmatchesyour skill we'll contactyou."Well actuallythat'sexactlywhatthe IS is,it actuallysurfacesthe candidatesthat you've talkedtointhe past and bringsthemforward.Sothat SmartAssistantas we call it, hasbeena massive time saver,sourcingsaver,reductionof bias actuallyforeverybody. ChrisRussell: I heara lotof TA leaderstalkaboutautomationandtryingtomake thingsmore efficient,save time forthe recruiters.Anditsoundslike you're reallypushinga lotof those typesof features,the productjusttosave time and automate as much as possible whilestillbeingcandidate friendly.Right? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah we wantto leverage automationtogive time backto the recruitersto make it more human,more collaborative andtoa certainextentautomationis your friendhere.Because the twohoursare savedschedulinginterviewsistwo hoursI couldspendfollowingupwithpeoplewhowere interviewedyesterday and are keenlywaitingtohearwhathas happened.Justassimple asthat.The automationis,Heyactuallythose 17 candidatesare still instage new,they've beenthere forfive days.Duh.Whatare you doing?Right?Sothat's also automation.Ican rejectthemall if youwant, butyou can alsolookat them. Jerome Ternyck: Justhelpingrecruitersdeal withthe volumessothatactuallytheycan dowhat theywant,whichisoffercandidatesanamazingexperience.Idon'tthinkany recruiterinthe worldgetsintotheirjobthinkingmyjobinlife istooffera shitty candidate experience.It'sjustthe consequencesof thembeingoverwhelmedby lack of technologyandjusttoomany thingshappening. ChrisRussell: Yeah,definitely.Iwantto ask aboutGoogle fora minute.Couplefrontsthere. Google forjobs.Were youan earlyadopterof that intermsof pushingyour clients'jobstothat? Andsecondly,whatkindof trafficare youseeingfromthat particularplatformitself? Jerome Ternyck: So yes,we were anearlyadopter,part of the initial launchactuallyworkingwith Google onthat in proximity.Imeantheyare a few milesfromhere,sothat's good.I thinkGoogle needs,andthisfeedbackwe have giventhem, theystill needtoidentifyproperlywhoisthe ATS.Fornow theyare applyingaGoogle methodology,whichisIwantto buy a flightfromParistoSan Francisco.Then
  • 10. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 10 of 13 theyjusttell me yeah,youcan do thisone and thenI have Expediaandthisand thisand that.But the problemhere isthatthisisnot aboutbookinga flight. Ultimatelyif you're lookingforajob andyou findsomethingatVisa,they're goingto sendyouto SmartRecruiters,ZipRecruiter,Glassdoor,Indeed,LinkedIn ...But the truthis whereveryougo,youactuallyare goingto endupat SmartRecruiterbecause that'show youapplytoa jobat Visa. Jerome Ternyck: Andso I thinkthisisone optimizationthatGoogle,andIknow they've been workingonit andit's not an easyproblemtosolve.Theyhave tomake the life of candidateseasierandinsteadof "selling"sendingtraffictointermediaries here to actuallyallow candidatestogostraightto the source.Andif theydo that, they'll getcorporate recruiterswaymore interested.Because todaymost of myGoogle forjobs trafficishiddenbehindLinkedIn,Glassdoor,Indeed,and the othersbecause theyare the onesreceivingtraffic. ChrisRussell: Yeah.Do you thinkGoogle will evertryto monetize Googleforjobs?There's speculationoutthere thattheywill.Idon'tthinktheywill butwhat'syourtake? Jerome Ternyck: Oh yeah,Ithinktheywill. ChrisRussell: You thinktheywill. Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.I thinktheywill.Funnyenoughisactuallyjusttalkingtosomeone there, and we were talkingaboutourprogrammaticadvertisingsolutionthere.Oh,this isreallyinteresting.Where doyougettrafficfrom?Isaid we getat this...and thenI added "We're waitingforyouguysto openpay perclickon Google for jobs."AndI had a bigsmile onthe face of that Google employee becauseyeah, of course ...I thinkthey're goingtodo it.But to do that theyhave to be able to knowwhoare theysellingto.Are theygoingtosell traffictothirdpartiesorare theygoingto sell traffictoemployers?AndIthinkthatthat debate maybe has beendecidedatGoogle buthasn'tbeenannounced.Idon'tthinkit'sclear yet. ChrisRussell: Yeah,yeah.Were yousurprisedaboutthe Google forHire shutdown? Jerome Ternyck: I was andI wasn't. ChrisRussell: Because thatkindof seemslike ...Theyjustdidn'treallygetthatmarketmaybe interms of sellinginto,Idon'tknow. Jerome Ternyck: So Google Hire started outof an attemptto increase retentionandaddmore value forthe Google customers,andmeantto be as one of manyapps that they wouldactuallybuild.Aneasyuse case if youhave collaboration.Idon'tthink that wasevera real pushto saywe're going to be the hiringplatformthat's
  • 11. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 11 of 13 goingto win.Andso I didnotsee the corporate commitmentbehindthat initiative.Thatwouldreally- ChrisRussell: Right.Justnot theirheartintoit. Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.I don't thinkso.Andso resourceswere reallocated,productdoesn'tget supported,andtheyshutitdown.I thinkit'sone of the qualitiesof Google actually.Theyknow whentosay stop,andI see that's payingoff.Now will Google keepaddingmore toolstotheirbusinesscustomer?Ihope so.I'm a big Google userand bigGoogle fan.We use the whole GSuite here at SmartRecruitersandit'sgreat.Do theyget intoadvancedbusinessapplication like recruiting?That'sastep. ChrisRussell: How aboutFacebook?Idon't know,theycame out withtheirFacebookjob board.They're startingto workon some ATS's now.I'm notsure if you're a part of thatat all.Buttell me more about yourrelationshipwithFacebookJobsitself. Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,so again,we were part of that initial integration,initial launch.Soall the jobsare pushedtoFacebookJobs.We actuallydidquite some workonour end to identifyandtoallow customerstopointthe rightjobsto the rightpages. Because it'sverynice if you are SmartRecruitersthenyourjobsgoto your SmartRecruiterspage.Youare a small company,youwill recruit100 people a year.That's all cute and cool. Jerome Ternyck: But if you're Bosch, andyou have 900 legal entitiesaroundthe world,then chancesare youhave more thanone Facebookpage and now actually discerningfromacentral ATS,whichjob's go towhichparts of yourFacebook pagesisan interestingquestion.Sowe actuallybuiltaFacebookJobs managementmodule thatreallydirectsthe rightjobstothe rightFacebook pagesand the rightbrands. ChrisRussell: Doesthe user have to authenticate theirpage withyouguys? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah.So theyactuallydoauthenticate asthe administrator,adminof thatpage on Facebookandthenit's synchronized.Sothat'snice.Facebookontheirend didsome workon 'ApplywithFacebook'.Soyoucan applydirectlyfrom FacebooktoSmartRecruitersandenhancingthis.We actuallyhave some more initiativegoingonatthe HiringSuccessconference intwoweeks.We have a hackathon.So we have 20 teamscompetinginthe hackathon.And- ChrisRussell: Are these yourdevelopers? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,so we have some of our developers.We have customersbringing developers.SoSquare wasbringingindevelopers.There'sdiscussionabout
  • 12. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 12 of 13 Facebookactuallybringinginpeople andothersthatwill be soonannounced, but some bigbrands.LinkedInof course whoare scalingat LinkedInor deployingatLinkedIn.Andthey're connectingSmartRecruitersdeeplyintotheir system.Soone of our core principle hasbeenAPIfirst.Sowe have avery powerful developmentenvironment,whichallowsmore sophisticated customerstobuildcustomintegrations,customexperiencesfortheirusersorin the case of LinkedIntoactuallymerge whattheygetfroman ATS where they're fromtheirownsystemto actuallyoptimize theirownrecruitingprocess. ChrisRussell: Yeah.You're sucha energetic,passionate supporterof hiringingeneral.Where doesthiscome from, Jerome?Where'sthe earlyseedof helpingpeople get jobs,andhelpingcompaniesrecruitbettercome from? Jerome Ternyck: It's interestingbecause Itrulythinkthatwasmy callinginlife.It'sreallyvery interesting,anditwasmy firstjob.My very,veryfirstjob.I wantedtocreate a company.I wenttoPrague in the CzechRepublic.I'mfromFrance.Andat the time CzechRepublic,like the restof the formerSovietblockwasexpanding,and it waslotsof opportunities.Igotto Prague,andI startedto ask people,what can you dohere?What are some goodbusinessideas?Andeverybodyhadone similartalktrack,whichwas,Oh, youcan do anythingbutgee,it'shard to hire goodpeople.SoIdidn'thave any money.AndsoI said,well maybe Icouldstart a recruitmentagency. Jerome Ternyck: Andthere I was23 yearold,I didn'tspeaka wordof Czech.AndI started- ChrisRussell: You were 23 inPrague.You started yourownrecruitingagency? Jerome Ternyck: Yeah,and I startedplacingpeople.What'sreallyinterestingatthat time isthat all of the candidateshadzeroexperience educationinanyfieldrelevanttothe marketeconomythatmy customerswere lookingfor.SoyouhadL'Oreal comingand say,I needa marketingmanagerwithatleastfive yearsexperience and a degree inmarketingandspeakinggoodEnglish.AndIwouldsay,well nobodyhasfive yearsexperience inmarketinginthiscountrybecause fiveyears ago there wasno marketing.Ohshit,okay,you're right.Nobodyhasa degree in marketingbecause there isnomarketingdegreesinanyCzechuniversityatthe time.Imightbe able tofindyousomeone thatspeaksEnglishiscreative andwe thinkcouldbe a good marketer. Jerome Ternyck: Andthose roots of actuallybeingina positiontofigure outwhatcoulda person be good at independentof anythingtheyhaddone before iswhatgave me the passionforrecruiting.Andtothisday,I will fight.Inscorecardfor example, whenyouevaluate candidates,don'tevaluatecandidatesonthe musthaves, evaluate themonmustachieves.Backtomy example,if Icancode in Javalike a God, doyou care if I wentto Stanfordor I learneditonYouTube?Youdon't. So
  • 13. Learn more about the RecTech Podcast at https://www.rectechmedia.com/podcast Ep-163-Jerome (Completed 02/09/20) Transcript by Rev.com Page 13 of 13 don't make a scorecardthat says degree froma greatuniversity,five years experience,thisisirrelevant.Make ascorecard that saysamazingJava coder, goodteam player.Create.Okaygreat.Sonow you can evaluate me onscenes that I can achieve.Andthat has stayedwithme. Jerome Ternyck: To thisday I lookat recruiting,Ijustwantto match people tojobsat [inaudible 00:32:39]. I thinkit'sa technologyproblemandIthinkit'sa problemthatcan and will be solvedbyatechnologyplayer.AndI'dlike forSmartRecruiterstobe that player. ChrisRussell: Awesome.Andlastquestionforyou,Jerome.Whatwouldthe Jerome of today tell the Jerome of 2011 whenyoufirststartedaround this,aboutwhatyou've learnedalongthisjourney? Jerome Ternyck: So if the Jerome of today,professionally,Iwouldsaygetintechfaster.I spent the first10 years doinga recruitmentagency.Ihadgoodsuccess.We endedup withlike 300 people inthe companyandit was all nice.Butin the endwe were justhelpingone personata time.AndIthinkI wouldhave lovedtogetintotech a bit earlier.Onmymanagementandmyownpersonal leadership,Icome from a place of vulnerabilityandauthenticitythese daysthatIdidnot have the courage,the experience tohave back whenI was25. Whenyou're 25 you want to conquerthe worldand you're protectingyourself.Youare notself-confident. AndI realizedoverthe yearsthatvulnerabilityandauthenticityare justreally core leadershipskills.I'mhere andwiththe team.I reallylove mySmartians,the whole reasonwhywe are here.SoI'm drivenbypurpose andleadingby authenticityandvulnerability.Sothat'sone thingI wouldadvise myself. ChrisRussell: Awesome,well Jerome Ternyck,thankyouverymuchforyourtime today. Jerome Ternyck: Well,thankyouso muchfor havingme. Speaker2: Anotherepisodeof RecTechisinthe books.Follow ChrisonTwitter @ChrisRussellorvisitRecTechmedia.comwhere youcanfindthe audioand linksforthisshow on our blog.RecTechmediahelpskeepemployersand recruitersupto date throughour podcasts,webinars,andarticles.Sobe sure to checkout our othersites,recruitingheadlines,andHR podcasterstostay ontop of recruitingindustrytrends.Thanksforlisteningandwe'll seeyousoononthe nextepisode of RecTech,the recruitingtechnologypodcast.