3 d web round table 2 (10 feb 2013)

3D WEB ROUND TABLE #2
SO3D Resource Center in SpotON3D
10 Feb 2013

This was the second in a series of 3D Web Think Tank (3DWTT) round tables
with those attending looking to help guide the path of the future or the
Metaverse. This meeting focused on brainstorming ideas for WHAT we each
see as the future of the 3D Web (Metaverse) with everyone contributing to the
ideas freely. We look to focus on things that have the greatest potential (game
changers) rather than just going after those that are easiest to implement. In
follow-up round tables, we will refine these ideas and rank by order of greatest
importance those which we see as pinnacle to the successful mainstream
adoption of the 3D Web for greater use in business, education, social
networking, and entertainment. We held off on identifying HOW to achieve our
goals for the overall 3D Web until we have clearly defined them. The third
round table is scheduled for 10 Mar 2013 at 11 am PST. Portal setup at:
http://3dwebthinktank.wordpress.com

IDEAS VOICED FROM AROUND THE TABLE
• TOOLS: We need ways to learn what tools (open source & commercial) are
available for people to use within their projects. We need a resource library.
(Tessa Harrington)
• CONTENT CREATION: The percentage of creators who design for a living is
a rather small portion (0.01%) of creators out there (Virginia)
• NEED TO FOCUS ON THE USER: Everything was good in 2007, but we are
now struggling in virtual worlds in 2013. Need to focus on where the money
is and what is ahead. We lost connection with the normal user. They are
not interested in mesh, hyper grid, and all these technologies. I think it's time
to think about what users want. Mobile. I read a lot about technologies like

physics. We get too complicated. Things like clothes get too difficult for the
end user. Virtual worlds are not limited to a group. We should appeal to the
masses. We have to answer the question of “Why should I join a virtual
world?” (Dean Ashby)
• APP EASY: It needs to be app easy. If we don't' get what iTunes and the
app store learned, we won't get people into virtual worlds. (Tessa Harrington)
• SHOW ME THE VALUE: Virtual has to bring added value. If it’s the same
value as the 2D web, why build it in a virtual world? And we need to go
mobile to reach the masses. (Sun Tzu)
• TECHNOLOGY OR USER FOCUS: Technology is leading the way, but the
user should lead the way. Look from the user perspective and translate that
into the technology. Not the other way around. (Johan Hagel)
• UNDERSTANDING THE AUDIENCE: There is a huge group of 20
somethings that have a relationship with online gaming. We need to
understand them. (Virginia Dickenson)
• TEMPLATES: Need templates for virtual worlds (Virginia Dickenson)
• MAKING IT SIMPLER: I work in the human side of things. It's really all
about making it simpler. Turn it from something that is techie cool to
something that is mainstream so that “ordinary folks” have a top quality
experience. Need to fulfill a need that people have. Produce things that
bring a smile to people. (Ixmal Supermarine)
• LOOK FOR THE UNDERSERVED AUDIENCE: There was a presentation
yesterday (9 Feb 2013) from Saffia Widdershins on why people went into SL
and why they stayed. A group that may be more interested into the
metaverse. Looked for the underserved. (Pooky Amsterdam)
• KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE FIRST. We should build the Metaverse with form
following function so that the technology is shaped to fit those who will use it.
(Sun Tzu)
• GROWING THIS INDUSTRY: We need to grow this or this industry will die
(Tessa Harrington)
• VIRTUAL INDUSTRY: We need a community of interest that focuses on
jobs in the 3D Web to make this go mainstream. Jobs that provide real
salaries appropriate to the level of effort people are putting into this industry.
(Sun Tzu)
• MAKE IT BETTER: Is there something that can be done with 3D that is
better than than other options people have like web? (Lomgren Smalls)
• REACHING PEOPLE: How do you get people interested to come in and
develop? (Taff Nouvelle)
• CONNECTING REAL LIFE AND VIRTUAL MICRO TRANSACTIONS:
There are 28 million users in SL with 8K online who could buy music. Bring
real life companies in world to sell things. Need to connect to real life. Like

when you purchase in real life, give 20% off on the virtual version of the
products and vice versa. We miss the mix between RL and virtual. People
are using CD Baby to sell their songs to iTunes for around $12. If iTunes
offers songs at 99 cents, we could offer songs in virtual worlds for 89 cents.
We need to bring greater value. Why do people play Farmville? It’s easy
and fast and gives them value. We are trying to reach people, but we are
sending them to Facebook. (Dean Ashby)
• WHAT MAKES FACEBOOK & ITUNES SPECIAL?: A virtual world has the
power to bring together friends from around the world. Identify what things
appeal to people with Facebook and iTunes and bring that in world. Don't
just bring them in world to stare at things. (Dean Ashby)
• TEAMING TO PROVIDE SOLUTIONS: We have to make one step back and
look at problems that are on our route to the future. Then form teams of
maybe a few people and come up with priorities to provide solutions. (Johan
Hagel)
• HOW ARE PEOPLE USING TECHNOLOGY? Look at what people do with
their phone, their iPad, or their laptop. That is key! 75% are listening to
music on their smartphones. (Dean Ashby)
• IT’S NOT JUST A MATTER OF GOING MOBILE: We're running into the
same problems as Linden Lab. Mobile isn't everything. We need to connect
to things in real life. (Johan Hagel)
• VIRTUAL WORLD FRAMEWORK: Ask your coders to take a look at the
Virtual World Framework (http://virtualworldframework.com with source code
at https://github.com/virtual-world-framework/vwf). It is similar in concept to
Cloud Party (http://www.cloudparty.com) with its main components of
HTML5, WebGL, Web Sockets, and Javascripts. It may provide a way to
reach a much greater audience. I was looking to use it with the Unreal game
engine to extend a virtual client to email. Think of “Avatars in your Inbox”
with virtual world applications in your email. I don’t know for sure, but was
just thinking maybe it could be used to develop new innovative front end
viewing applications to the OpenSim backend...or maybe we need to move
completely past OpenSim to a more innovative, robust, and truly scalable
solution for the future!

WHO USES VIRTUAL WORLDS? (Virginia Dickenson)
• Learners
• Educators
o Traditional methodology
o Accelerated learning
o Integrated learning environments for hybrid-asynchronous-
collaborative learning
o Learning game (video game model)
• Gamers
o PKK
§ 1st person shooter
§ 3rd party visual
o Quest based / Role Play
§ Linear
§ Wholistic
§ Social aspect
• Socializers

IDEAS FROM LOCAL TEXT CHAT
[11:23] Taff Nouvelle: https://www.freeconferencecall.com - Organize
conference calls with 96 callers-completely free!
[11:23] Tessa Harrington: wow
[11:24] AgileBill4d Firehawk: lol
[11:25] Francisco Koolhoven: hi lindy
[11:25] Lomgren Smalls waves
[11:25] Ixmal Supermarine: welcome lindy
[11:25] lindy low: hey everyone ... no need to type for me .. ican hear you loud
an clear
[11:25] lindy low: hery everybody
[11:25] AgileBill4d Firehawk: Hi Lindy
[11:25] lindy low: hey agile!
[11:26] Virginia Dickenson: oh oh
[11:26] Virginia Dickenson: I cannot hear you anymore
[11:26] Sun Tzu: Welcome to the second in a series of "3D Web Round Table"
meetings. I would like to start by thanking each of you for your work and for
being a part of this group as we help move the Metaverse forward to what we
all know it can and one day will be.
[11:26] lindy low: did anyone else losesounds/
[11:26] Lomgren Smalls: Was wondering about that myself
[11:26] Lomgren Smalls: Yes
[11:26] lindy low whispers: yes!
[11:26] lindy low: whew
[11:26] Francisco Koolhoven whispers: yes
[11:27] Sun Tzu: Today's meeting will focus on brainstorming ideas for WHAT
we each see as the future of 3D WEB. We look forward to your ideas and ask
everyone to keep things open for anyone to contribute their thoughts.

[11:27] Sun Tzu: Please keep in mind that while somethings may be easier to
do (low hanging fruit), we want to focus on things that will have the greatest
potential value (game changers) rather than just those that are easiest to
implement.
[11:27] lindy low: good point
[11:27] Sun Tzu: In the last 15 minutes, we'll review ideas which show the
greatest consensus of our future vision. We won't necessarily focus on the
HOW to implement these things just yet. We want to get a clear vision of WHAT
needs to be done first.
[11:30] lindy low: wow
[11:34] Virginia Dickenson: *raise my hand*
[11:35] Sun Tzu: This is the 3D Repository from ADL: http://3dr.adlnet.gov/
[11:35] GuestGuy2 Guest: hands tied ;-)
[11:35] GuestGuy2 Guest: true
[11:36] GuestGuy2 Guest: 0,01%
[11:36] GuestGuy2 Guest: lol
[11:39] lindy low: yes yes
[11:41] AgileBill4d Firehawk: yes, core
[11:41] AgileBill4d Firehawk: (but keep breathing!)
[11:41] Virginia Dickenson: WHOOOT!!!
[11:42] AgileBill4d Firehawk: yep, the mix is a killer
[11:43] AgileBill4d Firehawk: JiWay
[11:45] GuestGuy2 Guest: agree
[11:46] Taff Nouvelle: educators dont want pupils " looking out of the window at
the scenery", they want to keep the attention on the project.
[11:46] GuestGal Guest: need to relog - voice chat not available ! S;-9 brb
[11:47] Tessa Harrington: nods
[11:47] Tessa Harrington: 2013!
[11:47] Virginia Dickenson: Interesting you say that Taff; because my entire
approach is to create learning environments, where the learner interacts with
the environment for the learning.
[11:47] Tessa Harrington: LOL
[11:48] Taff Nouvelle: by the scenery, I mean the clothes on the market etc :)
[11:48] Tessa Harrington: nods that was my point
[11:49] Tessa Harrington: yes
[11:49] Taff Nouvelle: my problem with education and business is that its
something that will make money for the grid, but not bring in people for the
entertainment side.
[11:50] Lomgren Smalls raises his hand
[11:50] Tessa Harrington: good point
[11:51] Taff Nouvelle: most people are in virtual worlds for fun, the geeks like
me are in the minority
[11:51] AgileBill4d Firehawk: chuckles
[11:51] Tessa Harrington: s LL should have created a middle wear to make it
easier for mesh product to be implemented?
[11:51] Tessa Harrington: middle ware

[11:51] GuestGal Guest: Saffia had a very interesting presentation yesterday
about why people initially came into SL - was some good stats in her preso
[11:51] Ixmal Supermarine: I agree that a lot of potential users don't
understand why they need us. There isn't an avatar-shaped hole in their lives.
[11:52] Taff Nouvelle: exactly so Ix :;)
[11:52] Johan Hagel: i think we have to look from different perspectives
(different groups of users) different thema's
[11:53] Taff Nouvelle: when I mention SL or any virtual world to someone who
is not in the know, the answer is " ahh the sex and gambling worlds??"
[11:53] Sun Tzu: They have gambling???
[11:53] Taff Nouvelle: haha they did :)
[11:53] GuestGal Guest: who is we?
[11:53] Johan Hagel: and then translate back to different goals for different
groups
[11:54] Ixmal Supermarine: ahh the sex and gambling worlds for weird
geekazoids!
[11:54] Taff Nouvelle: thats the ones :;)
[11:54] Ixmal Supermarine: hear hear!!!
[11:55] Taff Nouvelle: so true Tessa
[11:55] AgileBill4d Firehawk: yes, I like tht, App easy
[11:55] Virginia Dickenson: Sex and gambling have their place! The issue
becomes keeping them separated.
[11:56] GuestGal Guest: iits all about what you DO there
[11:56] Johan Hagel: i like to make a point....
[11:56] Tessa Harrington: well i think we have to stop thinking as a virtual world
and more as a web experience
[11:56] Tessa Harrington: that's step one
[11:56] Taff Nouvelle: I have seen people arrive at the welcome centers in SL,
and ask " how do I get out, what do I do to win" ?
[11:56] GuestGal Guest: where are you trying to get them?
[11:56] AgileBill4d Firehawk: we haven't made the right application of the tech,
but the tech is like using plastic instead of wood.
[11:56] Virginia Dickenson: @Taff re: clothing: got it!!! Still, in rl - learners are
checking out their fellow students. It's part of being human. Just have to
manage it - guest accounts with non-nekkid avies
[11:57] GuestGal Guest: in a virtual environment (broadly defined) or to a
specific place in time
[11:57] Lomgren Smalls: Yes, people just don't understand virtual worlds - they
think everything is a game.
[11:57] Virginia Dickenson whispers: re: Agile and gamers: YES IT DOES
[11:57] Taff Nouvelle: we arent ???
[11:58] Tessa Harrington: willing slavery

[11:58] Lomgren Smalls stares at his computer screen
[11:58] Tessa Harrington: can't live without my smartphone
[11:58] Virginia Dickenson: LMAO
[11:58] Taff Nouvelle: my computer stares back :;P
[11:58] Virginia Dickenson: my techie shackles!
[11:58] GuestGal Guest: people still think the average gamer is a teen in their
parents basement - since 2006 the majority player has been a 40 year old
woman - aoOL vance released a report in 2006 or even earlier and found this
[11:58] Tessa Harrington: yes .. we need to be ok with getting away from the
"virtual world" idea
[11:58] Virginia Dickenson: AGREED
[11:58] Tessa Harrington: amen
[11:58] Virginia Dickenson: HTML 5
[11:58] Ixmal Supermarine: yes
[11:58] GuestGal Guest: very very small mobile
[11:59] GuestGal Guest: the screen is tiny no visual interest - well limited
[11:59] Virginia Dickenson: OH OH *raising hand*
[11:59] Virginia Dickenson: (and waiting my turn)
[12:00] Tessa Harrington: ease of use. ease of onboarding, compelling user
functionality that makes it easier for them to be involved and contribute ...
people love to BUILD and work with others but to do that now here its so great
a mountain to climb.. they need shortcuts that we the creators and developers
provide
[12:00] Taff Nouvelle: I am surprised that it has not been used for virtual tours
of virtual buildings, for instance, look around the house that is for sale, new
building designs that you can actually walk around etc
[12:01] GuestGal Guest: they have that in 360 degree photo like applications -
they do sell apartments but with 360 degree views
[12:01] Tessa Harrington: That's what i mean by providing shortcuts
[12:02] GuestGal Guest: *raises hand*
[12:02] Tessa Harrington: templates is a better way .. That’s why we created
hotswap scenes
[12:04] Tessa Harrington: we need template hotswap to be created
[12:04] Tessa Harrington: so you can buy them and jump off them right?
[12:04] Virginia Dickenson: yup yup
[12:06] Ixmal Supermarine: *raises hand*
[12:06] Virginia Dickenson: *shutting up now for five min*
[12:06] Virginia Dickenson: AGREED
[12:06] AgileBill4d Firehawk: Unity's Asset store is pretty good - an example
model
[12:07] Virginia Dickenson: I am all about affordable, v free
[12:07] Virginia Dickenson: I will check that out
[12:07] GuestGal Guest: *RAISES HAND*
[12:07] GuestGuy2 Guest: exactly
[12:07] Tessa Harrington: Guest Gl -- Pooky is next
[12:07] Tessa Harrington: Guest Gal

[12:07] Taff Nouvelle: its really up to the ordinary folk to tell the geeks what
they need :)
[12:08] GuestGuy2 Guest: call me ordinary ;-
[12:08] Taff Nouvelle: if someone can tell me what scripts are needed, I will
write thhem :;)
[12:09] Tessa Harrington: i think we need to meet them in the middle
[12:09] Tessa Harrington: we need to go where they go .. mobile
[12:09] Tessa Harrington: Type the name please?
[12:09] GuestGuy2 Guest: get rich ..make amillion $ bla
[12:09] Tessa Harrington: Second life is a part of the metaverse :) so that's kel
[12:10] Doctor Schwartz: saffia widdershins
[12:10] Tessa Harrington: ty dave :)
[12:10] AgileBill4d Firehawk: but most of us are ....
[12:10] AgileBill4d Firehawk: 52 here
[12:10] GuestGuy2 Guest: 43 lol
[12:10] Taff Nouvelle: the kids are too busy out having a real life :)
[12:10] Ixmal Supermarine: https://my.secondlife.com/saffia.widdershins
[12:10] Sun Tzu: Say it ain't so Pooky
[12:10] Johan Hagel: YOU DO? I DONT BELIEVE YOU!!!
[12:10] Taff Nouvelle: 65 here
[12:10] Virginia Dickenson: 48 years old and immature!
[12:10] AgileBill4d Firehawk: darn, typed that wrong, I meant 25
[12:10] Virginia Dickenson: LOL
[12:10] GuestGuy2 Guest: ahah
[12:10] Tessa Harrington: bill
[12:11] Johan Hagel: looking around here...everybody is around 21!
[12:11] GuestGuy2 Guest: fully true
[12:11] Sun Tzu: and female
[12:11] Taff Nouvelle: haha I LOOK my age :P
[12:11] Tessa Harrington: not taff he's always honest with his av
[12:11] Taff Nouvelle: :)
[12:12] Tessa Harrington: tytyty :)
[12:12] GuestGuy2 Guest: raises hand
[12:12] Virginia Dickenson: This is my virtual Barbie doll!
[12:12] Tessa Harrington: Gest Guy .. you're next
[12:13] Taff Nouvelle: unless they are a geek :)
[12:13] GuestGuy2 Guest: not anymore ;-)
[12:13] Ixmal Supermarine: Friendship is a powerful motivator, I reckon
[12:14] Tessa Harrington: value
[12:14] Johan Hagel: We can categorize users in a limited number of target
groups?
[12:14] GuestGal Guest: agreed you will get farther by starting at a goal and

workign your way back to it
[12:14] Virginia Dickenson: I think so, Johan
[12:14] GuestGuy2 Guest: and get the wow effect
[12:14] Virginia Dickenson: Learners, gamers, socializers
[12:14] GuestGuy2 Guest: for a second
[12:14] Johan Hagel: and then define goals for that groups...translate that to
activities to take
[12:14] Tessa Harrington: and pray something adds up to enough revenue to
support it to grow
[12:14] Virginia Dickenson: what else?
[12:15] Virginia Dickenson: LOL...that is the challenge Tessa
[12:15] Taff Nouvelle: very good point
[12:15] Ixmal Supermarine: That's what I meant when I was talking of moving
away from geek-chic to mainstream... you put it very well Dave
[12:15] Virginia Dickenson: Must be between free and super expensive
[12:15] GuestGuy2 Guest: may i give you 2 examples
[12:15] Virginia Dickenson: please, gg2!
[12:16] AgileBill4d Firehawk: okay, let's agree not to pass away
[12:16] Taff Nouvelle: we all get to 40 eventually though
[12:16] GuestGuy2 Guest: hardly
[12:17] Tessa Harrington: johan
[12:17] Johan Hagel: yep?
[12:17] AgileBill4d Firehawk: right
[12:17] Virginia Dickenson: Total agreement
[12:17] AgileBill4d Firehawk: 3d - signal to noise ratio - why do we HAVE to
have 3d for a given app?
[12:17] Tessa Harrington: please
[12:17] Sun Tzu: Not sure if sound working still
[12:18] GuestGal Guest: angry birds isnt 3D
[12:18] Tessa Harrington: ok joe
[12:18] Taff Nouvelle: it takes time to download and install a viewer, you cant
just click and go on a browser, thhat is a BIG limit
[12:18] Virginia Dickenson: Quest based
[12:18] Tessa Harrington: can with ours :P
[12:18] AgileBill4d Firehawk: xbox, whole ecosystem easy to use
[12:18] Virginia Dickenson: Xbox is so limited, imo, but I get the example
[12:19] Tessa Harrington: yes!
[12:19] Sun Tzu: Going to relog
[12:19] Tessa Harrington: we tried to get our musician to actually go through
the process to sell their covers but they did not want to do the work to make it
sellable
[12:20] Tessa Harrington: yes but we didn’t' know you
[12:20] Tessa Harrington: and they dont' know about this either

[12:20] Tessa Harrington: so the biggest problem was that, if we can solve that
then its something we can now do
[12:21] Virginia Dickenson: Tessa, we need to talk offline about Kilmarac -
great case for getting social clubbers in here
[12:21] Tessa Harrington: that's a marketing problem and that can be solved
[12:21] Tessa Harrington: okidoki viginia
[12:21] Tessa Harrington: bridge the gap between real world and 3d web
[12:21] Ixmal Supermarine: Yes!
[12:22] Taff Nouvelle: Nike tried that and failed I believe
[12:22] Virginia Dickenson: Agreed
[12:22] Tessa Harrington: nice!
[12:22] Tessa Harrington: that's how it should have been done but LL would
not move in that direction
[12:23] Virginia Dickenson: Actually approached Pizza Hut (they are a client)
about placing pizza stands with gamer discounts in world. Gamers eat pizza.
Virtual pizza parties sell FAR more pizza than a LAN party.
[12:23] Tessa Harrington: but maybe we wouldn't have wanted that
augmentation honestly at that point either
[12:23] Virginia Dickenson: Each player/user purchasing separate pizza
[12:23] Ixmal Supermarine: Pizza! Yes that is a very ripe market, early
adopting www-users
[12:23] Tessa Harrington: agreed
[12:25] Doctor Schwartz: we did do similar tests during the heyday of SL with
universal music group and the numbers weren't there and neither was the want
to by umg execs
[12:25] Virginia Dickenson: Any delivery food - I just picked PH because they
are nearly EVERYwhere! Primary, secondary, tertiary markets
[12:26] Ixmal Supermarine: [sorry guys I have to go - fascinating meeting,
enjoy the rest of it!]
[12:26] Lomgren Smalls: The problem is that the US music industry is stuck in
the past
[12:26] Tessa Harrington: ty ixie for being here
[12:26] Sun Tzu: OK thanks Ixmal
[12:26] Virginia Dickenson: bye bye Ixmal!
[12:26] Ixmal Supermarine: great to meet you guys, bye!
[12:26] Virginia Dickenson: Always great to see you/hear from you!
[12:26] Francisco Koolhoven: bye ixie
[12:26] Doctor Schwartz: also, keeping track of users and visits is how they
keep track of royalties, and it can be expensive
[12:26] Ixmal Supermarine is Offline
[12:27] Doctor Schwartz: for only 240,000 annual visits its more than 300 bux
for ascap alone
[12:28] Doctor Schwartz: musicians are notoriously lazy when it comes to
helping you help themselves
[12:28] Taff Nouvelle: hey, I play guitar :P
[12:29] Virginia Dickenson: Have done that in the past with our radio station

[12:29] Virginia Dickenson: go directly to indies
[12:29] Tessa Harrington: wow
[12:29] Doctor Schwartz: the indies all register their songs too though
[12:29] Virginia Dickenson: but they have to be TRUE indy!
[12:29] Taff Nouvelle: have a look on YouTube at the amount of struggling
artists who put their demos up there
[12:30] Sun Tzu: What about iLike it is a group for Indy music that integrates
with iTunes
[12:30] Sun Tzu: From UK
[12:30] Virginia Dickenson: Absolutely, Johan - I consider what we talk about
as case examples
[12:30] GuestGuy2 Guest: yeah
[12:32] Tessa Harrington: Johan can you mute yore mic when you get done
speaking?
[12:32] Tessa Harrington: its creating an echo
[12:32] Johan Hagel: i do constantly...
[12:32] GuestGuy2 Guest: lost you
[12:32] Tessa Harrington: oh dear lost him again
[12:32] Taff Nouvelle: sound went
[12:32] Lomgren Smalls: yeah, lost you
[12:32] Riley Hope: oops. no voice
[12:32] Sun Tzu: If we can make shopping more a social experience
[12:32] GuestGuy2 Guest: nope
[12:32] AgileBill4d Firehawk: yes
[12:32] Virginia Dickenson: I dont know
[12:33] Sun Tzu: brb
[12:33] lindy low: i think its important. but maybe not the first step
[12:34] GuestGal Guest: I am going to have to hop - thank you so much for
asking me to come - Happy Chinese New Year ALL Year of the Snake!
[12:34] GuestGal Guest: See you round the grid no lie
[12:34] GuestGuy2 Guest: what will i see on a iPhone screen entering a virtual
world
[12:34] Virginia Dickenson: just wondering how Xbox and PSP make all their
money? But I believe you
[12:34] GuestGuy2 Guest: *entering
[12:34] Tessa Harrington: thank you Pooky
[12:34] Tessa Harrington: so glad you could make it
[12:34] AgileBill4d Firehawk: impressive
[12:34] GuestGal Guest: S;-D - and the future of the virtual environment is on
Google Glass
[12:35] Tessa Harrington: yes but they can out perform us by 1000 percent
Virginia
[12:35] GuestGal Guest: unity3D great call
[12:35] Sun Tzu: Google Glass = Augmented Reality
[12:35] Johan Hagel is Offline
[12:35] Sun Tzu: but need infrastructure first

[12:36] Virginia Dickenson: I get it, Tessa - just looking at the market for non
mobile
[12:36] Virginia Dickenson: I am not saying we do Xbox or PSP, no no
[12:36] Tessa Harrington: nods well anything that will run on mobile will run on
pc laptops
[12:37] Tessa Harrington: but the reverse is not true and that's the big gap
[12:37] AgileBill4d Firehawk: but is a webcam face to face?
[12:37] Johan Hagel is Online
[12:38] AgileBill4d Firehawk: My mom learned assembler and Chinese at age
60, so not sure age is always a factor
[12:38] GuestGuy2 Guest: wb johan
[12:38] Tessa Harrington: it doesn't the point is if i beamed in my mom from 20
years ago to today she'd be soooo confused
[12:39] Tessa Harrington: but she's very tech today
[12:39] AgileBill4d Firehawk: interesting, yes
[12:39] Tessa Harrington: because she's adapted as its been introduced
[12:39] Tessa Harrington: here here
[12:39] Tessa Harrington: that's right david
[12:39] Tessa Harrington: the floating balls
[12:40] Johan Hagel: someone break his neck?
[12:40] Virginia Dickenson: So, strategically - we need to look at what we can
add value with today, and also what needs to be dev'd rapidly.
[12:41] Tessa Harrington: very true
[12:41] Tessa Harrington: good point
[12:41] Tessa Harrington: very true virginia
[12:41] Tessa Harrington: stare
[12:41] Tessa Harrington: :P
[12:41] Tessa Harrington: true
[12:42] Tessa Harrington: watch your AVATAR dance
[12:42] Tessa Harrington: bah
[12:42] Virginia Dickenson: brb - need a small break
[12:42] Tessa Harrington: ok virginia
[12:42] Tessa Harrington: so more functionality?
[12:42] Tessa Harrington: more to do
[12:43] Virginia Dickenson: whew! okies back
[12:44] Tessa Harrington: ROFL
[12:44] Tessa Harrington: yes for us girls this is the ultimate Barbie doll
[12:44] Virginia Dickenson: :D
[12:44] Virginia Dickenson: YUP
[12:44] Tessa Harrington: yes us women LOVE to play dress up
[12:44] Doctor Schwartz: Disney is the key to this
[12:44] Tessa Harrington: and that in itself can be a broke through app that
reaches tons of audience and breaks through the wall of visibility and
acceptance

[12:45] Virginia Dickenson: LL has a specific focus - they still think they will be
the next FB in 3D. And they might! But is that the focus of this world?
[12:46] Sun Tzu: Good point
[12:46] Sun Tzu: Barbie not bad...just drawn that way
[12:46] Virginia Dickenson: I get to still play Barbie!
[12:46] Virginia Dickenson: Business Barbie
[12:47] Virginia Dickenson: Dancer Barbie
[12:47] Taff Nouvelle: Band Barbie
[12:47] Virginia Dickenson: BAD Barbie...it's all good!
[12:48] Virginia Dickenson: She is RIGHT
[12:49] Virginia Dickenson: You know, Taff - that is the challenge. How to draw
quickly?
[12:49] Virginia Dickenson: Millions of dollars fo marketing
[12:49] Virginia Dickenson: :/
[12:50] Virginia Dickenson: Yes...very frustrating
[12:51] Johan Hagel is Online
[12:51] Johan Hagel is Offline
[12:54] Taff Nouvelle: its time to start a new world, Barbie World :)
[12:57] Virginia Dickenson: LOL...NO
[12:57] Virginia Dickenson: ;D
[12:57] Sun Tzu: you mean there is a copy of me everywhere?
[12:57] Virginia Dickenson: Maybe!
[12:57] Sun Tzu: I feel like Michael Keaton
[12:57] Taff Nouvelle: ever met your twin?
[12:58] AgileBill4d Firehawk: maybe not a world, but a 3d app of some sort
[12:58] Virginia Dickenson: brb, must have snack!
[12:58] Sun Tzu: ok
[12:58] Johan Hagel: take one for me to!
[13:01] GuestGuy2 Guest: with no products for them
[13:01] Sun Tzu: taht was so funny
[13:01] Sun Tzu: amazon vehicle pack
[13:01] Tessa Harrington: i know huh?
[13:01] Johan Hagel: RIGHT!!!
[13:01] Tessa Harrington: who are we wanting to bring in?
[13:01] Doctor Schwartz: it wont because there is nothing to do in SL anymore
[13:02] Tessa Harrington: and higher quality
[13:02] Doctor Schwartz: all the good builds are gone; all the culture is dead
[13:02] Tessa Harrington: all's that left seems to be the sex and club crowd
sadly .. at least that's the impression for the outside in
[13:02] Lomgren Smalls: Second life isn't completely dead. There are still
amazing communities - Relay for Life of SL is still huge and growing.
[13:03] Lomgren Smalls: But Tessa is right... people only see the seedy side
from outside

[13:03] Virginia Dickenson: back
[13:03] Johan Hagel: RIGHT!!
[13:04] Taff Nouvelle: I dont play games
[13:04] Virginia Dickenson: yes
[13:04] GuestGuy2 Guest: investors want money
[13:05] Virginia Dickenson: Their investors (Kappor, and some of the MS
investors) want an exit strategy - and they cannot find one
[13:05] Taff Nouvelle: no longer is it " your world, your imagination"
[13:06] Sun Tzu: SL has such a bad rep
[13:06] Taff Nouvelle: I don’t think the about time is a problem, its
understanding HOW that is the main problem.
[13:06] Taff Nouvelle: make it easy
[13:07] Virginia Dickenson: Johan, you are right! I am here primarily for
business. I want the social available, but here for business.
[13:07] Sun Tzu: We need discriminators
[13:07] Sun Tzu: what is special sauce of virtual?
[13:08] Sun Tzu: why is it something I can't do without?
[13:08] Virginia Dickenson: LL pumped their numbers by refusing to allow
importing of resources from the outside re: building - folks were FORCED to
build in world
[13:09] Virginia Dickenson: The discriminators for me: price, quality, value of
my presence/contribution, customer service - that is what is existing for me
now.
[13:09] Sun Tzu: Need to be a fly on the wall
[13:10] AgileBill4d Firehawk: very common yes, a new generation,
[13:10] Virginia Dickenson: The Connected Gen
[13:10] AgileBill4d Firehawk: yes
[13:10] Virginia Dickenson: Hyper connected
[13:10] Virginia Dickenson: nope
[13:10] Taff Nouvelle: kids are human ????????
[13:10] Doctor Schwartz: but they do it very poorly and it is going to catch up to
them: multitasking is a myth
[13:10] Virginia Dickenson: and texting...forget it
[13:10] AgileBill4d Firehawk: well folks, great to see you - need to run - bon
courage!
[13:10] GuestGuy2 Guest: bye :-)
[13:10] Virginia Dickenson: Bye Agile!!
[13:10] Taff Nouvelle: See ya Agile :)
[13:11] Doctor Schwartz: yes
[13:11] Doctor Schwartz: MIT and Sandford
[13:11] Doctor Schwartz: Stanford
[13:11] Sun Tzu: yes
[13:11] Virginia Dickenson: Well, one is certainly busier
[13:11] Doctor Schwartz: nope they cant'
[13:11] Doctor Schwartz: nope

[13:11] Doctor Schwartz: i teach them
[13:12] Doctor Schwartz: they are awful
[13:12] GuestGuy2 Guest: loool
[13:12] Doctor Schwartz: 6-9
[13:12] AgileBill4d Firehawk is Offline
[13:13] Sun Tzu: Sorry things went a lot longer
[13:13] Sun Tzu: But great discussion
[13:13] Sun Tzu: We'll hold off on the list till post-meeting
[13:13] Sun Tzu: I have taken many notes
[13:14] Virginia Dickenson: *raising my hands*
[13:14] Virginia Dickenson: both of them
[13:14] Tessa Harrington: ok Virginia
[13:14] Tessa Harrington: 40 and above
[13:15] GuestGuy2 Guest: i look like 18 :-P
[13:15] Tessa Harrington: dean
[13:15] Sun Tzu: My Avatar just turned 18
[13:15] Virginia Dickenson: My avie is hot
[13:15] Lomgren Smalls: I'm 31, so I'm a bit on the low side.
[13:15] Tessa Harrington: you do! i've seen your picture!
[13:15] Tessa Harrington: hehe lom
[13:16] Johan Hagel: i thought you was younger Lomgren.....
[13:16] Lomgren Smalls: Nah, I don't look like my avatar on here, this is just a
barely edited default. *chuckles*
[13:17] Tessa Harrington: lom
[13:17] Sun Tzu: Studies generally say what the group conducting them want
them to
[13:17] Tessa Harrington: my son is a BIG eve fan so i know what you're
talking about
[13:18] Tessa Harrington: he plays constantly
[13:18] Tessa Harrington: and guess what? its very business like!
[13:18] Tessa Harrington: incidental learning! OMG love that
[13:18] Sun Tzu: I think today's kids are going to greatly change how we do
business in next decade
[13:19] Tessa Harrington: even if i can’t spell it
[13:19] Sun Tzu: It's like a different culture
[13:19] Tessa Harrington: and they are going to create businesses that use
that technology instead of what we old farts use
[13:20] Virginia Dickenson: Immersive learning
[13:21] Sun Tzu: They found that a large group of DOT Commers dropped out
and now returning to the colleges and universities, but the schools can't teach
the page turner style and PowerPoint to reach these students
[13:22] Virginia Dickenson: yup

[13:22] Virginia Dickenson: yup!
[13:22] Sun Tzu: Great
[13:23] Virginia Dickenson: I am willing to contribute with content as I can...but
I am limited in terms of my content..I am an instructional designer and educator.
:D Not graphics, scripting, building. But I am here for ya if I can be!
[13:24] Virginia Dickenson: That is what brought a kajillion people into SL
[13:24] Virginia Dickenson: NEWness
[13:24] Sun Tzu: But they loved Krmart and target till Wamart entered the
scene
[13:24] Johan Hagel: Which people like SL? (age, group)
[13:24] Virginia Dickenson: Absolutely!
[13:24] Sun Tzu: They stopped innovating at Linden Lab for SL
[13:25] Sun Tzu: Became the JIRA circle of death
[13:25] Virginia Dickenson: and the timeline is exponentially higher than other
level sof tech
[13:25] Sun Tzu: they suck at marketing
[13:25] Virginia Dickenson: LOL..dunno what that is, Sun
[13:25] Johan Hagel: RIGHT!! the ppl that are on SL now...were there 5 years
ago as well
[13:25] Sun Tzu: I tired to contact Public Relations at Linden Lab and they
never respond
[13:26] Lomgren Smalls is nearing 6 years in SL...
[13:26] Sun Tzu: I just wanted an in world photo to show what SL is to students
[13:26] Sun Tzu: but needed copyright free
[13:26] Tessa Harrington: I'm 8 years .. 2005 but LL has made me avatar
disappear
[13:26] Virginia Dickenson: but what about those mobile versions of PSP and
...Nintendo...and one is coming out for Wii? I am not sure it is "the solution" -
but it is considerable.
[13:26] Sun Tzu: Well I'm over 2000 years old in RL
[13:26] Lomgren Smalls chuckles
[13:27] Sun Tzu: we had same problems with virtual worlds back then too
[13:28] lindy low: it worked for a while
[13:28] lindy low: for me
[13:28] lindy low: i was being paid by businesses to create custom content
[13:28] Virginia Dickenson is Online
[13:29] lindy low: for some time
[13:29] Taff Nouvelle: I just got paid $50 US for a solid week of scripting, if it
was writing a web site that would have been more like $500..
[13:29] lindy low: and paid a bit more than i do on sl
[13:29] lindy low: not rl wages but headed in that direction
[13:33] GuestGuy2 Guest: they dont do that either ..;-)
[13:33] Johan Hagel: LL's Business Model is based on selling land and
accounts...nothing more.. the rest they leave to the community
[13:34] Sun Tzu: I don't think LL has a biz model...or maybe that is the same
as the fashion show runway model

[13:35] Taff Nouvelle: As of 1 Jan 2013, support for Phoenix Viewer has been
discontinued. From the Phoenix web page
[13:35] Johan Hagel: they just follow the technology push
[13:35] GuestGuy2 Guest: true but has a reason
[13:35] Sun Tzu: I just started using mesh and don't like it often. They want me
to change my shape, which is part of my identity virtually
[13:36] Taff Nouvelle: Agreed Sun, my avatar IS me :)
[13:36] Virginia Dickenson: Sun, you are RIGHT! LOL - there was NO
STRATEGY! 30 mill in 3 years - POOF! Thought they would go public; with an
infrastructure that never was and never can be SOX compliant, without a total
migration. That would cost many many millions.
[13:37] Virginia Dickenson: All about the mesh - AS LONG as it doesn't require
upgrading the computer to view it.
[13:37] Virginia Dickenson: That is KILLING the educational business
[13:37] Virginia Dickenson: (corporate)
[13:37] Taff Nouvelle: SL doesn’t even warn you that they are rebooting the
sim half the time :)
[13:38] Virginia Dickenson: *nods*
[13:39] Virginia Dickenson: It's like land management - no one teaches that, so
new sim owners screw up so much! You guys are RIGHT!
[13:41] Tessa Harrington: OMG
[13:41] Tessa Harrington: that's crazy
[13:41] Tessa Harrington: but that sounds like a LL fail again
[13:41] Tessa Harrington: why didn’t' they make a SKIRT Rigging template?
[13:41] Tessa Harrington: that you can apply then edit
[13:41] Tessa Harrington: if it default doesn't work
[13:42] Doctor Schwartz: thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts and
time. i look forward to following the evolution of these roundtables. be well!
[13:42] Sun Tzu: tc
[13:42] Virginia Dickenson: deflower! LOL
[13:42] Sun Tzu: deflower always worked
[13:43] Virginia Dickenson: EXACTLY
[13:44] Virginia Dickenson: If people want to build, they should be able to!!!
[13:44] Virginia Dickenson: But those of us that don't want to , we should be
able to get resources easily and affordability.
[13:45] Tessa Harrington: its a mmorpg
[13:46] Tessa Harrington: nono you have to have templates and jump starts to
immediately have something to enjoyable and use
[13:46] Tessa Harrington: that's something we've been doing for years
[13:46] Tessa Harrington: no

[13:46] Sun Tzu: Some women are great at fixing the clothes they buy
[13:46] Tessa Harrington: you give them a "game "tool that they can pretend to
be a creator
[13:47] Virginia Dickenson: that would be one aspect!
[13:47] Virginia Dickenson: :D
[13:47] Sun Tzu: there you go Tessa - we make it for Mattel for Barbie
[13:48] Sun Tzu: Can you get the funding???
[13:48] Virginia Dickenson: I hear ya!
[13:48] Virginia Dickenson: *nods*
[13:48] Sun Tzu: kk
[13:49] Sun Tzu: Machinima on "I'm a Barbie Girl living in a virtual Barbie
World"
[13:49] Virginia Dickenson: with venture, you relinquish 75-85% of your IP just
for the due diligence. If they decide not to fund, you lose your idea/product.
[13:49] Sun Tzu: people love innovative ideas
[13:49] Virginia Dickenson: @Sun: BAhhahahhaha!
[13:50] Virginia Dickenson: It's ONE app she is talking about
[13:50] Virginia Dickenson: Then, that app with successful penetration
becomes a template for developing other apps
[13:51] Virginia Dickenson: Farmville begets Zooville begets Yovill begets
XYZville - like that
[13:51] Virginia Dickenson: I HATE Angry Birds! I suck at it!
[13:51] Virginia Dickenson: RIGHt
[13:52] Virginia Dickenson: It's like KickStarter - it depends on the product
[13:53] Virginia Dickenson: that is correct
[13:54] Virginia Dickenson: And they own your content
[13:54] Virginia Dickenson: so gotta be careful what you share
[13:54] Sun Tzu: like a drug dealer
[13:54] Sun Tzu: first one is free
[13:54] Sun Tzu: then we get you for life
[13:54] Virginia Dickenson: ROFL
[13:55] Virginia Dickenson: there ya go, Sun!!!
[13:55] Sun Tzu: ok
[13:55] Sun Tzu: I send you notes on it
[13:55] Taff Nouvelle: 2 cents?
[13:55] lindy low: thank you sun
[13:55] Sun Tzu: if you could look over Tessa
[13:55] Sun Tzu: thanks all
[13:55] GuestGuy2 Guest: im sorry for talking too much ;-)
[13:55] Virginia Dickenson: NO GG2! Thank you!!!
[13:55] Taff Nouvelle: its been an interesting meeting :)
[13:56] Taff Nouvelle: and we would be RICH :P
[13:56] lindy low: i did!
[13:56] lindy low: i just typed it

[13:56] lindy low: lol
[13:56] Lomgren Smalls chuckles
[13:56] lindy low: yes those earphones give me a head ache
[13:56] lindy low: and i knew this was gonna be a long meeting
[13:56] lindy low: lol
[13:56] Virginia Dickenson: Thank you, for organizing this Tessa!
[13:56] lindy low: big head means big brain
[13:56] Lomgren Smalls grins
[13:56] Virginia Dickenson: there ya go, Lindy!
[13:56] Virginia Dickenson: Google site
[13:56] Virginia Dickenson: easy
[13:57] Virginia Dickenson: Wordpress works
[13:57] GuestGuy2 Guest: 3d is dead
[13:57] GuestGuy2 Guest: :-)
[13:57] Virginia Dickenson whispers: NO NO
[13:57] GuestGuy2 Guest: 5d
[13:57] Lomgren Smalls: They've gone plaid!
[13:57] Virginia Dickenson: well, I would go 4D
[13:57] Virginia Dickenson: LETS BUILD A TARDIS
[13:57] GuestGuy2 Guest: 4d is cinema4d
[13:57] Tessa Harrington: 3daye
[13:58] Johan Hagel: 3Di
[13:58] lindy low: lol really Tessa... giggles
[13:58] GuestGuy2 Guest: 3daytee
[13:58] Virginia Dickenson: I like that too
[13:58] Virginia Dickenson: boring but simple
[13:58] Sun Tzu: 3D Think Tank
[13:58] lindy low: yes
[13:58] Virginia Dickenson: I will!
[13:58] lindy low: thanks for filling me in lommy
[13:58] Virginia Dickenson: hey, this was brainstorming
[13:58] Lomgren Smalls: Glad to
[13:58] lindy low: this was fantastic
[13:58] lindy low: I’m excited
[13:58] Virginia Dickenson: yup yup
[13:59] Virginia Dickenson: almost my birthday!
[13:59] Virginia Dickenson whispers: LOL
[13:59] lindy low: ugh.. may be in NY
[13:59] GuestGuy2 Guest: may i ask one last question? Are we really bound to
the viewer and the tech behind LL provided? Or can we just build something up
that fulfills our needs?
[13:59] lindy low: but i'll do my best
[13:59] Virginia Dickenson: I might be partying..but doubt it

[14:00] Sun Tzu: Virginia - bring the party here
[14:00] Johan Hagel: so your bringing cake, Virginia?
[14:00] Virginia Dickenson: the BEER
[14:00] GuestGuy2 Guest: Sunny make it happen i get the mass ;-)
[14:00] Virginia Dickenson: ROFL
[14:01] Sunny Salamander: yeahh :-)
[14:01] lindy low: watch out tessa!
[14:01] Virginia Dickenson: You Germans! ARRRRGH! ;*
[14:01] GuestGuy2 Guest: lloool
[14:02] Virginia Dickenson: WhOOO HOOO
[14:02] Johan Hagel: i love bear!
[14:02] Sun Tzu: http://virtualworldframework.com
[14:02] Virginia Dickenson: I just want the damn chip embedded in my brain; i
want THAT
[14:02] Sun Tzu: yes
[14:04] Virginia Dickenson: I love that too
[14:04] Virginia Dickenson: MOdularized approach is good
[14:04] Virginia Dickenson: As long as I can still hook up to the grid...
[14:04] Virginia Dickenson: OooooooooOOOOOOO
[14:05] Virginia Dickenson: But it has to be AFFORDABLE for us little guys!
[14:07] Virginia Dickenson: Yeah, I HAVE to have marketplace!
[14:07] Virginia Dickenson: Exactly!
[14:08] Virginia Dickenson: And I am a good example of the shopper profile!
[14:13] Taff Nouvelle: I am Fred Bloggs and I live on the hill :P
[14:13] Virginia Dickenson: @Dean: GREED
[14:13] GuestGuy2 Guest: lol
[14:14] Taff Nouvelle: you are in fact renting server space from Linden Lab
[14:14] Virginia Dickenson: That is correct, Taff.
[14:15] Virginia Dickenson: That is right!
[14:17] Taff Nouvelle: Linden Lab are an American company when they want
to be, but they still charge VAT to ALL Europeans
[14:17] Sun Tzu remembers IBM thinking the software wasn't worth much
when Bill Gates asked to sell the operating system
[14:19] Sun Tzu: I only show Na'vi on Facebook
[14:19] Virginia Dickenson: it's one reason I came here
[14:27] Taff Nouvelle: I have to go and do a show in SL, great meeting see you
next time :)
[14:27] GuestGuy2 Guest: bye :-)
[14:27] Sun Tzu: ok tc
[14:27] Lomgren Smalls: Take care
[14:27] Taff Nouvelle: bye now :)
[14:27] Virginia Dickenson: bye bye
[14:27] Sunny Salamander: bye Taff

[14:30] Virginia Dickenson: Can't do mobile withy gamer graphic engines -
gotta make a choice
[14:33] Virginia Dickenson: BOO YAH!
[14:33] lindy low: omg
[14:33] lindy low: that would be expensive
[14:33] Johan Hagel: feel like a milk COW
[14:34] Virginia Dickenson: yup like satellite
[14:34] Virginia Dickenson: stupid
[14:34] Lomgren Smalls: Pretty much all of the us phone carriers are removing
unlimited data
[14:34] Sun Tzu: ok
[14:34] Virginia Dickenson: bandwidth is CHEAP
[14:34] Virginia Dickenson: now we are just yapping
[14:34] Sun Tzu: Take care all
[14:34] lindy low: thanks guys
[14:34] Lomgren Smalls: take care
[14:34] lindy low: bye!
[14:34] Francisco Koolhoven: thank you everyone
[14:34] lindy low: of course
[14:34] GuestGuy2 Guest: didn’t want you all to leave!

ATTENDEES
• Sun Tzu [David Fliesen] – Chair
• Tessa Harrington
• Ixmal Supermarine [John]
• Sunny Salamander [Thomas]
• AgileBill
• Lomgren Smalls
• Xenon [Virginia]
• Riley Hope [Kathi]
• Taff Nouvelle
• Doctor Schwartz
• Dean Ashby Redgrave
• Francisco Koolhoven [Greg]
• Lindy Low
• Johan Hagel
• Pooky Amsterdam

3 d web round table 2 (10 feb 2013)

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