Learning in the Light of J Krishnamurti Teachings

SUNDAY DIALOGUE
5th & 12th June 2016
KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION INDIA CUTTACK CENTRE

Wikis Definition of Learning . . .
KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue

• Learning is the act of acquiring new, or modifying and
reinforcing, existing knowledge, behaviours, skills, values, or
preferences and may involve synthesizing different types of
information.
• The ability to learn is possessed by humans, animals, plants
and some machines. Progress over time tends to follow a
learning curve. It does not happen all at once, but builds upon
and is shaped by previous knowledge. To that end, learning
may be viewed as a process, rather than a collection of factual
and procedural knowledge. Learning produces changes in the
organism and the changes produced are relatively permanent.
• Human learning may occur as part of education, personal
development, schooling, or training. It may be goal-oriented
and may be aided by motivation.

,
• Time is involved
• Goal is a must
• The act of learning modifies & reinforces the
existing knowledge
• It’s a accumulative and cumulative process
• Effort and motivation is necessary & is
involved
But is this this actual learning
and
what role does effort plays in the process of learning.
in Learning

Education, society, religion and the so-called sacred books - all
maintain that you must make effort, effort, effort.
Man is told that he is inherently lazy, sluggish, indolent, and that
unless he makes effort, he will vegetate, he will become lazy, lethargic
and incapable. That is what you are brought up on from the days of the
school till you die: that you must make endless effort, not only in the
family but in the office; you must make an effort to be virtuous, to be
good and so on. We never question if there is another way of living
altogether, which is without effort, without friction.
A life without friction is the religious life. And a mind without
friction, without conflict is the religious mind. When that mind acts, it
has every problem dissolved; it has no problem.
J. Krishnamurti
Madras 2nd Public Talk 20th December 1964

Why do we make effort?Why do we make effort?
So let’s discuss

Let’s read
What Krishnamurti has to say regarding why do we make effort?

Why do we make effort?
The obvious answer is to achieve a result. And without
effort, we feel we shall degenerate. But before we
make an effort, we never enquire into the question:
why has the mind to make an effort at all?
Is it not possible to learn without effort, to observe
without effort, to listen, so that that very act of
listening is learning?
There is effort, only because we are in contradiction. If
there was no contradiction at all, there would be no
effort.
J. Krishnamurti
Madras 2nd Public Talk 20th December 1964

• Have you ever thought about it?
• How do we learn, why do we learn, and what is it that we
are learning?
• What is the meaning, the deeper significance of learning?
• We have to learn to read and write, to study various
subjects, and also to acquire a technique, to prepare
ourselves for a profession by which to earn a livelihood.
• We mean all of that when we talk about learning - and
then most of us stop there. As soon as we pass certain
examinations and have a job, a profession, we seem to
forget all about learning.
What is learning?
This Matter of Culture/Ch 21/1st para

What is learning?What is learning?
Then Let’s discuss

A. “We learn from a book or from a teacher
about mathematics, geography, history; we
learn where London is, or Moscow, or New
York; we learn how a machine works, or how
the birds build their nests, and so on. By
observation and study we learn. That is one
kind of learning.”
This Matter of Culture/Ch 9/1st & 2nd para
Usual Type of Learning

B. But is there not also another kind of learning -
the learning that comes through experience?
When we see a boat on the river with its sails
reflected on the quiet waters, is that not an
extraordinary experience?”
Then What Happens? …
Usual Type of Learning
KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue This Matter of Culture/Ch 9/1st & 2nd para

The mind stores up an experience of that kind, just as it stores
up knowledge.
And the next evening we go out there to watch the boat, hoping
to have the same kind of feeling – an experience of joy, that
sense of peace which comes so rarely in our lives.
So the mind is sedulously storing up experience; and it is this
storing up of experience as memory that makes us think, is it
not? What we call thinking is the response of memory.
Having watched that boat on the river and felt a sense of joy,
we store up the experience as memory and then want to
repeat it; so the process of thinking is set going, is it not?
KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue This Matter of Culture/Ch 9/1st & 2nd para

• From books we learn
what other people
have written about
sciences or etc.
Learning
from books
•This comes through
experience.
Learning
through
experience
So usual learning can be from …..
This Matter of Culture/Ch 21/2nd

Is there anything other than this type
learning that we know.

• We begin by learning how to read and write, how to sit
quietly, how to obey or not to obey; you learn the history
of this or that country, you learn languages which are
necessary for communication; you learn how to earn a
livelihood, how to enrich the fields, and so on.
• But is there a state of learning in which the
mind is free of the background, a state in
which there is no search?
NOW WHAT IS THE OTHER TYPE OF LEARNING?
This Matter of Culture/Ch 21/5th para

Let’s read
What Krishnamurti has to say regarding Learning?

What do we mean by learning? Is there learning when you are
merely accumulating knowledge, gathering information? That is
one kind of learning, is it not? As a student of engineering, you
study mathematics, and so on; you are learning, informing yourself
about the subject. You are accumulating knowledge in order to use
that knowledge in practical ways. Your learning is accumulative,
additive. Now, when the mind is merely taking on, adding,
acquiring, is it learning?
Or is learning something entirely different? I say the additive
process which we now call learning is not learning at all. It is merely
a cultivation of memory, which becomes mechanical; and a mind
which functions mechanically, like a machine, is not capable of
learning. A machine is never capable of learning, except in the
additive sense. Learning is something quite different, as I shall try
to show you.
Contd…

Contd…
A mind that is learning never says, "I know", because
knowledge is always partial, whereas learning is complete
all the time. Learning does not mean starting with a certain
amount of knowledge, and adding to it further knowledge.
That is not learning at all; it is a purely mechanistic process.
To me, learning is something entirely different. I am
learning about myself from moment to moment, and the
myself is extraordinarily vital; it is living, moving; it has no
beginning and no end. When I say, "I know myself", learning
has come to an end in accumulated knowledge. Learning is
never cumulative; it is a movement of knowing which has
no beginning and no end.
Jiddu Krishnamurti
New Delhi 2nd Public Talk 17th February 1960/19th para

Let’s read further
What Khas to say regarding what implies learning?

For me, learning implies a state of mind which is never
gathering, never accumulating. If one learns with a mind that has
already gathered, then such learning is merely the acquisition of
more knowledge, is it not? The accumulation of knowledge is not
learning. The electronic machines are doing that, they are
acquiring more and more knowledge; and they are incapable of
learning.
The acquisition of knowledge is a mechanical process,
and learning can never be a mechanical thing. A mind must
always be fresh, young, innocent to learn. And a mind which is
learning is always, surely, in a state of humility - not the humility
cultivated by the monk, the saint, or the erudite person. A mind
that is learning has its own dignity, because it is in a state of
humility.
Contd…

I am using the word ‘learn’ in quite a different sense, not
as a process of acquiring knowledge. Living with a thing, and
acquiring knowledge about it are two different states. To learn
about something you must live with it; and if you already have
knowledge about it you cannot live with it, because then you
are only living with your own knowledge.
J. Krishnamurti
London 9th Public Talk 21st May 1961
Contd…

Let’s watch
A video of K having dialogue with students

Let’s sit quietly for a
while.

Humility and Learning
Has learning anything to do with Humility ?
and
Are there any prerequisites for having Humility ?
Let’s discuss

So we must understand what is learning.
Learning demands a mind that has clarity and compassion
with precision. Without these two there is no humility.
That is, a mind that is capable of thinking very clearly, rationally,
sanely, without any perversion; and a heart that is precise - these
two must exist where there is humility; and humility implies
learning. Humility is not a quality to be cultivated. The moment
you cultivate humility, it ceases to be what it is.
X X X X X X X
Humility exists from moment to moment. It exists when the
mind is aware, learning, searching, absorbing. And humility is
that quality which is essentially of the nature of affection;
because without affection, without the sense of deep love, you
can't learn.
J. Krishnamurti Bombay 4th Public Talk 2nd March 1962

…To learn about oneself one needs a great deal of
humility. If you start by saying, “I know myself”, you’ve already
stopped learning about yourself. Or if you say, “There is nothing
much to learn about myself because I know what I am—I’m a
bundle of memories, ideas, experiences, tradition, a conditioned
entity with innumerable contradictory reactions”—you’ve stopped
learning about yourself.
To learn about oneself requires considerable humility, never
assuming that you know anything: that is, learning about oneself
from the beginning and never accumulating. The moment you
accumulate knowledge about yourself through your own discovery,
that becomes the platform from which you begin to examine, learn,
and therefore what you learn is merely further addition to what
you already know. Humility is a state of mind that never acquires,
never says, “I know”.
Talks & Dialogues Saanen 1967, p 212

Does one ceases to learn
the moment one argues with life?
Let’s discuss

Let’s read
What Krishnamurti has to say regarding this?

The act of listening is the act of learning.
One has to learn so much about life, for life is a movement in
relationship. And that relationship is action. We have to learn—not accumulate
knowledge from this movement that we call life and then live according to that
knowledge, which is conformity. To conform is to adjust, to fit into a mould, to
adjust oneself to the various impressions, demands, pressures of a particular
society. Life is meant to be lived, to be understood. One has to learn about life,
and one ceases to learn the moment one argues with life, comes to life with the
past, with one’s conditioning as knowledge.
So there is a difference between acquiring knowledge and the act of
learning. You must have knowledge; otherwise you will not know where you live,
you will forget your name, and so on. So at one level knowledge is imperative, but
when that knowledge is used to understand life—which is a movement, which is a
thing that is living, moving, dynamic, every moment changing—when you cannot
move with life, then you are living in the past and trying to comprehend the
extraordinary thing called life. And to understand life, you have to learn every
minute about it and never come to it having learned.
The Collected Works vol XV, pp 13-14KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue

Do Authority in the form of
Person, Guru, Books or etc.
helps in Learning.
Do Authority in the form of
Person, Guru, Books or etc.
helps in Learning.
Now after reading different K’s statement on Learning
let’s discuss another question that is

Let’s read
What Krishnamurti has to say regarding the role of authority?

I think there is a totally different way of learning, …… but
to understand it, and to learn in this different way, you must be
completely rid of authority; otherwise, you will merely be
instructed, and you will repeat what you have heard. That is why
it is very important to understand the nature of authority.
Authority prevents learning -learning that is not the
accumulation of knowledge as memory. Memory always
responds in patterns; there is no freedom. A man who is
burdened with knowledge, with instructions, who is weighted
down by the things he has learned, is never free. He may be
most extraordinarily erudite, but his accumulation of knowledge
prevents him from being free, and therefore he is incapable of
learning.
J. Krishnamurti, The Book of Life

You have to be your own
teacher
By discarding Authority K is
emphasising that

You have to be your own teacher
The speaker is not important at all; what is important is for you
to find out these things for yourself, so that you are free and not
second-hand human beings. You must look to find out, to find out
whether or not it is possible for the mind to be completely and totally
free of this violence, pride and arrogance, and so come upon a different
quality altogether. And to find that out you must look most intimately
and discover for yourself; then it is your own, not somebody else’s, not
something that you have been told, because there is no teacher and no
follower.
Unfortunately that word “guru” has been bandied about recently in this
country; the word in Sanskrit means “the one who points”, like a
signpost by the roadside. However, you don’t worship that post, hang
garlands around it; neither do you follow it around and carry out all the
mysterious orders a guru is supposed to give; he is just a signpost by
the roadside, you read and pass by.
Contd…KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue

Contd…
So you have to be your own teacher and your own
disciple, and there is no teacher outside, no saviour, no master;
you yourself have to change, and therefore you have to learn to
observe, to know yourself. This learning about yourself is a
fascinating and joyous business…
J Krishnamurti, Talks with American Students, p 98
Do you know what it means to learn? When you are
really learning you are learning throughout your life and there is
no one special teacher to learn from. Then everything teaches
you - a dead leaf, a bird in flight, a smell, a tear, the rich and the
poor, those who are crying, the smile of a woman, the
haughtiness of a man. You learn from everything, therefore there
is no guide, no philosopher, no guru. Life itself is your teacher,
and you are in a state of constant learning.
J. Krishnamurti This Matter of Culture Chapter 1

Watching though there is nothing to
Learn
K has often said about the importance watching. Here
he is saying something interesting that is

Watching though there is nothing to LEARN . . .
I am learning about myself—not according to some psychologist or
specialist—I am watching and I see something in myself; but I do not condemn
it, I do not judge it, I do not push it aside—I just watch it.
I watch that I am proud—let us take that as an example. I do not say, “I
must put it aside, how ugly to be proud.”—but I just watch it. As I am watching,
I am learning. Watching means learning what pride involves, how it has come
into being.
I cannot watch it for more than five or six minutes—if one can, that is a
great deal—the next moment I become inattentive. Having been attentive and
knowing what inattention is, I struggle to make inattention attentive. Do not do
that, but watch inattention, become aware that you are inattentive—that is all.
Stop there. Do not say, “I must spend all my time being attentive”, but just
watch when you are inattentive. ……
There is a quality of mind that is awake and watching all the time,
watching though there is nothing to learn. That means a mind that is
extraordinarily quiet, extraordinarily silent. What has a silent, clear mind to
learn?
The Impossible Question, pp 25-26

Think on These Things

“Learning is something entirely different from
accumulating knowledge; learning is always active
present. Knowledge is always in the past.”
J. Krishnamurti New York 3rd Public Talk 30th September 1966
“Learning is a movement, a flow; and there is no flow
the moment there is a static state of knowledge,
which is essential when we function
technologically. But life isn't technological
accumulation; life is a movement, and to learn it and
to follow it, one has to learn each moment. To learn,
there is no accumulation.”
J. Krishnamurti New York 3rd Public Talk 30th September 1966

“Learning is an act - an act of the active present. It
is the verb to learn, it is a movement. But that
which has been learnt has already become a static
thing.”
J. Krishnamurti Paris 1st Public Talk 16th May 1965
“Learning, and accumulating knowledge, are two
different things. A mind that is acquiring
knowledge, is never learning.”
J. Krishnamurti Paris 4th Public Talk 27th May 1965

“Learning is always in the active present, it has no past.
The moment you say to yourself, "I have learnt", it has
already become knowledge, and from the background of
that knowledge ? you can accumulate, translate, but you
cannot further learn. It is only a mind that is not
acquiring, but always learning, - it is only such a mind that
can understand this whole entity that we call the `me', the
self.”
J. Krishnamurti Paris 4th Public Talk 27th May 1965
“Learning means, to the speaker, a constant observation,
listening, moving, never taking a stand, never taking a
position, never going back to memory and letting memory
act. That is a great art.”
J. Krishnamurti Last Talks at Saanen 1985“Q&A” Ch-3

“So, one begins to discover that knowledge does
not give freedom. Only learning gives freedom.
Because that is not mechanical, you are learning
all the time; and from that learning, there is acting
all the time.”
J. Krishnamurti Madras 4th Public Talk 2nd January 1966
“Learning, which is the active present, is the doing,
is the acting. The doing, the acting, is in the
learning. Acting is not separate from learning.
I learn, as I do, as I act - not having learnt, I act.”
J. Krishnamurti Madras 4th Public Talk 2nd January 1966

“Learning is something entirely different from
knowledge. It is very easy to accumulate
knowledge, to gather information, store it up
through experience, through reading, through
reactions, and so on - store them up and from
that knowledge act, which is what most of us do.
But to learn is something entirely different;
because the moment you have learnt, which is
the past, it has already become knowledge.
Learning is a constant process, a movement in
which there is no accumulation at all.”
J. Krishnamurti Paris 1st Public Talk 16th May 1965

Beginnings of Learning
for us
It’s not an end, its

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Learning in the Light of J Krishnamurti Teachings

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