Product management means different things in different environments, but there is always some common ground. ProductTank Amsterdam organised a session to hear from 3 PMs in different types of companies, to understand their responsibilities, daily tasks and daily struggles. IceMobile's Experience Director Karlijn van den Berg focussed on the similarities and differences between product management in agencies and companies.

1. Product Management in an agency
January 20, 2015

3. My background: worked at several agencies that have the tendency to
change names all the time. As we say ‘change is the only constant’ at
IceMobile, I like to follow that path in my career. 5 years ago I started at
Muse (digital agency) & IceMobile (Mobile agency) which later merged
into IceMobile. IceMobile was then merged with BrandLoyalty, who are
specialists in (short term) loyalty programs within supermarkets. We
then were acquired by AllianceData and work closely together with
LoyaltyOne who are the inventors of the Airmiles Program.
Notes

5. I always had different strategy & creative roles in agencies, with the
most outrageous job titles. Once I started a product manager role
within IceMobile, I realised that I was already doing Product
Management for quite some years, without knowing the term. I then
attended the PM-course on UC Berkeley, and started joining groups like
ProductTank and met a lot of people like me.
Notes

6. Magic happens at the intersection

7. Within IceMobile we believe that magic happens at the intersection. We
combine creativity & technology to work in interdisciplinary teams. The
key to creating experiences that people love lies at the intersection.
Notes

9. This is also reflected in our logo, where these two worlds come
together.
Notes

10. AGENCY
COMPANY

11. We also worked within the intersection of being an agency, working for
brands and developing their services, and working as a company
building our own products.
Notes

13. As an agency we have build brand utilities for Albert Heijn, KLM, ABN
AMRO, Philips etc.
Notes

15. We then said goodbye to most of our clients. We merged with
BrandLoyalty and started to focus 100% on food retail. We developed
our own products: Bright Stamps and Bright Shopper.
http://icemobile.com/products
Bright Stamps is a mobile solution for collecting loyalty stamps. Bright
Shopper is a service that helps retailers communicate 1 to 1 with their
daily shoppers.
Notes

17. From an agency perspective we now work for Jumbo. Bright Stamps
has been implemented in Russia, Denmark, and China. In the coming
months/years many countries will follow.
Notes

18. “De Jumbo app voert de lijst aan, op de voet gevolgd door Appie. Omdat de app
van de Jumbo net iets overzichtelijker en gebruiksvriendelijker is dan die van de
Albert Heijn, verdient de Jumbo app een halve ster meer.”

19. In December 2014 we launched the Jumbo app. A few weeks later we
already reached a very nice achievement. Kassa, an important
consumer television program in NL, said that the Jumbo app is the best
supermarket app.
Notes

20. 5 similarities

22. Working as a PO or product manager in an agency in essence is the
same. It’s making the ultimate combination between UX, Tech and
Business. For a lot of projects we work with our own PO, who serves as
a sort of proxy-PO for the client. We work in teams (around 7 people)
with combined forces of UX, VD, test and development. We
continuously develop for the client, so once an app is in the market, we
will still continue to develop and maintain the product.
Notes

23. interviewroom teamroom
PULSE
full story on slideshare.net/icemobile

24. Also similar with working in agencies versus companies, is that the user
is in the centre of the design process. To get user feedback, we
developed our own UX testing method called ‘Pulse’. Every 2 weeks we
do intensive user testing (during our running sprint), using our current
build (so we don’t loose time with building prototypes). The team sees
the test live, and does the reporting themselves. Insights are
incorporated in the next sprint, so optimisations for the product is
done quickly, and tested during the next Pulse sessions.
More info on http://www.slideshare.net/icemobile/mae-pulse-
testingwittemanvandenoever
Notes

26. Working closely with your team is really important, within an agency
and a company. Developers are always part of the creative process
and we do brainstorm session with each other regularly. The
advantage of doing the PO role ourselves, is that we can really protect
the team. The alternative is a PO from the client, that might not have
enough time and becomes an ‘absent parent’.
Notes

28. What is also the same within companies or agencies, is that you need
to align with different stakeholders. As a PO/PM you will never make
decisions on your own. From an agency perspective there is quite a
challenge to make decisions, as you will be less empowered to do so,
because you’re not working for that company. But same as the absent
parent issue, you can also end up working with someone from the client
that is less experienced or with no mandate. Sometimes it’s better to be
the proxy PO and do the stakeholder management, than to end up with
the mini-me from the client.
Notes

30. Do epic shit is our main mantra. It’s about making stuff that matters. Set
goals you can’t meet to get further than you expected. Create a better
world and have fun along the way. Company, agency or start-up, you
can and will create epic shit.
Notes

31. 5 differences

33. You will never be the end boss. Your team will listen to you, but will
always try to be in contact with the client, and want to know what the
client thinks. They will trust your decisions… But with tough decisions,
it’s sometimes smart to let the client share this with the team.
Notes

35. If it’s your own product, you can talk about it on social media as much
as you want. And you can do your own webcare, making sure issues
from users are being solved. If you work within an agency you will not
be the spokesperson. You can’t reply on a user that has issues, but need
to ask your client to do so. However it’s really important to also do your
own webcare to understand the wishes from your users. Don’t expect
your client to do it for you.
Notes

37. There is a difference in working at an agency, and that’s the financial
dependency. It can lead to window dressing (trying really hard to show
your client you are worth the money). Make sure your process is open
for clients, and also share if things go wrong. A financial benefit is the
option to easily change resources between projects.
Notes

39. There are far more channels passed before you get your information. If
you are working in the company, feedback will come directly to you.
Working for an agency, you always have one (or more) extra channels,
and most of the times you won’t hear the feedback from the source.
Try to get in contact with the source, and if that’s not possible, make
sure you make decisions official. Document feedback, share what you
will do with it, and create official sign-offs with the most important
stakeholders to reach a point of no return.
Notes

41. Your client is the specialist in their field of work, and is truly living the
brand you are working for. It’s good to have the mind set of thinking
you don’t know enough. Make sure you do your own research, dive
into data and check social media and app store reviews on feedback.
However, you can also be more critical and pure. Working in an
organisation can also lead to making decisions based on career or
politics. You can’t simply ignore the CEO. As an external it’s easier to
ignore feedback of the CEO or to challenge his or her wishes. It’s easier
to have full focus on the user, and not being distracted by internal
issues.
Notes

42. 5 tips

44. Train your client to say what they ‘wish for’, and not to come up with
the solution. Be really annoying and keep asking for their business
wishes/goals. For instance, by training them to formulate it in a user
story. You will then have qualitative business conversations about
goals and wishes, and not about the impact of a certain solution, which
brings you into operational issues to quickly.
You should make these wishes presentable and tangible (use your
design forces to make quick concepts) so your stakeholder can double
check these with their managers.
Notes

46. Make sure you have a shared brain and memory, to be able to quickly
write down feedback from a stakeholder (even if you won’t do
anything with it, they feel you are listening to them) and to be able to
discuss priorities and track what you’ve decided together.
We use ProdPad to track these things and to create interactive sessions
with clients to prioritise the roadmap. This is translated to Jira, which is
mostly the team tool. As long as you are aligned on roadmap level
(what’s in the next release), you don’t have to go into detail what will be
delivered in which sprint. But our clients always have access to detailed
planning, so there are no secrets on progress.
Notes

48. Teach your client the process. Learn them to work agile. Don’t bother
them with too much detail (they don’t want to know, otherwise they
would be doing your work) but make sure they understand how it
works, and maybe eventually will take over your role.
Notes

50. Because eventually you need to make sure you will be replaced. It’s fine
to work on a proxy PO base for a while (to prevent absent parent
syndrome or to end up with an unexperienced mini-me), but the best
way to build great products is to have someone from the organisation
working closely with your team. Teach them and try to get someone in
your spot, and coach them along the way.
Notes

52. Last tip: let it go. Sometimes it’s hard to be the proxy because you’re
feeling highly responsible for the product of your client. You can give
100% but being awake at night about a bad review is only useful if your
client feels the same. If they don’t take full ownership, you can’t really
replace that.
Notes

53. we are hiring.
icemobile.com/jobs

54. IceMobileAmsterdam @icemobile@icemobile

55. “I like to chat about PM!”
Karlijn van den Berg
karlijn@icemobile.com
linkedin.com/in/karlijnvdberg