Northwest School Courageous Conversations

Northwest School
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
Seattle Girls’ School
Growth Mindset for Brave Spaces:
Authentic Sharing and Listening
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)

About Seattle Girls’ School

Agenda
• Cultural Competency
• Growth Mindset
• Brave Spaces
• Caucus Groups
• Hearing Each Other
• Next Steps

In the Conversation:
Key Elements of Cultural Competency
• Value Orientation
• Diversity as Value Added
• Respect
• Relationships
• Equity
• Thought Orientation
• Knowledge
• Awareness
• Systems Thinking
• Action Orientation
• Consciousness Building
• Capacity Building
• Assessment
• Adaptation

Missing From the Conversation:
Growth Mindset

Growth vs. Fixed Mindset

Growth vs. Fixed Mindset
FIXED:
• If you are a good
person, you must be
competent.
• Incompetent people are
bad.
• The “badness” of bias
can be removed once
light is brought to it.
• Once it’s gone, it’s gone
forever, and you will
never make mistakes.
GROWTH:
• We are all on a journey,
and competence is
always aspirational.
• Incompetent people just
have not had enough
exposure and practice.
• We are continuing to
undo learning that the
world still socializes us
to learn.

Challenges

Challenges
FIXED:
• I don’t feel safe.
• We can have this
conversation when we
are truly ready.
• If we talk about it, things
will get worse.
• I don’t see color, so it’s
not a problem for me.
GROWTH:
• I am uncomfortable – I
must be learning a lot.
• As much as we have
much more to learn, we
need to engage in this
conversation.
• Not talking about it will
result in status quo, and
status quo is not an
option.

Obstacles

Obstacles
FIXED:
• We had that
conversation once,
and it was disastrous.
• I tried to build
relationships with
members of that
group, and they
weren’t interested in
connecting with me.
GROWTH:
• Mistakes in this work
are inevitable.
• I learned so much in
that setback. That
learning will be so
useful for me going
forward.

Effort

Effort
FIXED:
• Some of my best
friends are ***
• I already know this
stuff.
• Why can’t we just
get along?
GROWTH:
• If I really want
authentic
connection, I have
to try harder.
• Anything worth
doing will be
difficult.

Criticism

Criticism
FIXED:
• Are you calling me a
racist? Well, I’m not.
• We’re a great and
loving school. You
are just being
negative.
• Things were fine until
you brought it up.
GROWTH:
• Thank you for
bringing this to my
attention.
• Wow, I didn’t realize
that was a blind spot
for me until now.
Thank goodness now
I know.

Success of Others

Success of Others
FIXED:
• Well, she may know
about race, but she
knows nothing about
class.
• Of course he knows
about ability – he’s
disabled. How am I
supposed to know as
much?
• I wouldn’t have said it
that way – it was too
harsh.
GROWTH:
• I wonder what work
she did to get to the
point she is at in her
understanding.
• I should ask that
person for some
advice on how I can
grow.
• What does this person
do that can I
incorporate into my
own practice?

Long Term Impacts

Long Term Impacts
FIXED:
As a result, these folks
are stuck in inaction,
worried that they might
give themselves away
as incompetent. Much
energy is spent
intellectualizing,
deflecting, and
defending actions or
points of view.
GROWTH:
As a result, these folks
are always becoming
more and more
competent. Their
relationships are more
authentic and
comfortable, they are
resilient through rough
patches, and they are
eager to learn more.

So What? Now What?

Safety versus Comfort
Safety: I feel that, in this space, I can ask questions without
fear of judgment. I can voice my perspective and know that
I will be validated for the fact that that is my truth. Others
may challenge my ideas, but that challenge is in the spirit of
greater shared understanding and growth.
Comfort: I feel that, in this space, my reality will be agreed
with, validated, and unchallenged. I don’t have to explain
myself to be understood, and I don’t have to justify my
perspective, as everyone shares it.
Good education happens in an environment where everyone
is safe but not always comfortable...
SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN AND GROW.

Safe Spaces 2.0 – Brave Spaces
• Controversy with Civility
• Own your own intent and impact
• Challenge by choice – with reflection
• Respect in all its multiplicity
• No personal attacks, but pointed
challenges are okay
• Be mindful of the true source of your
emotions

Be Willing to Discover
William Taylor’s Reflective Competence Model

Caucus Groups
• Think about your various identities, and which
ones hold much importance to you.
• Which one of your identities do you feel most
moved to advocate for and educate around?
• You will be answering the following prompts:
– What we never want people to say, think, or
do towards our group is…
– What we want you to know about our group
is…
National Coalition Building Institute, Seattle Chapter, “Building Bridges Workshop,” Adapted by Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee

Caucus Groups Formation
• Groups Identified
• Locations Assigned
• Break
• Caucus Groups
Start After Break
• Stretch Break/Return
• Caucus Group
Report Outs

To Keep in Mind:
• Write down all answers to prompts.
• Think about which items you’d like to
share with the larger group.
• Everyone in the group is invited to stand
together.
• Decide who will share items and how.

Break

Caucus Groups Work Time
Please document the responses to the following
prompts:
– What we never want people to say, think, or
do towards our group is…
– What we want you to know about our group
is…

Stretch Break and Return

Caucus Group Report Outs

Debrief: Caucus Groups
1. What information was new,
informative, moving, etc. to
you?
2. How does this information
change what you will think or
do in the future?
3. What action can you take to
become a better advocate for
yourself?
4. What action can you take to
become a better ally for
others?

Next Steps
• Work to progress from unconscious
incompetence to unconscious competence
• Work actively to discover new blind spots
• Strategize a plan to engage everyone in a
process of sharing, discovering, and
committing to action
• Seek ways to learn blind spots at minimum
burden to folks who are marginalized

Presenter
Information
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
Outreach Specialist
Seattle Girls’ School
2706 S Jackson Street
Seattle WA 98144
(206) 805-6562
rlee@seattlegirlsschool.org
http://tiny.cc/rosettalee

Resources
• Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman, Nurture
Shock
• Carol Dweck, Mindset
• Janet E. Helms, “White Racial Identity
Development”
• Claude Steele, Whistling Vivaldi
• Western Resource Center, Dismantling Racism
• National Coalition Building Institute, Reducing
Prejudices Workshop

Speaking From the Heart

What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Receiving the Ouch
Did that really
happen? Do they
realize? I want to
trust, but I’ve had
this happen so
many times before.
I am so stressed,
confused, hurt….

What We End Up Saying
When Receiving the Ouch
That was so
offensive!
I can’t believe
you did that!

Self Advocacy Through the Ouch Moment
• Affirm the person or relationship
• Describe the behavior without judgment
• Explain the emotion/impact and your filters
• Assume positive intent
• Request or suggest different behavior
*** Key Points: timing, I statements, actions not
adjectives, inside feelings not outside feelings***

Self Advocacy Through an Ouch Moment:
An Example
Is this an okay time to talk? I really appreciate
having you as a colleague. We’ve collaborated
well, and I respect the contributions you make
to the team. Earlier today, when we were in a
disagreement about the budget allocation, I
heard you say, “You’re being too much of an
emotional woman.” I was really hurt when I
heard that. I feel passionate and express myself
openly, and it seems like so many people
misinterpret that as my being a too emotional
and that it’s because I am a woman. It’s
frustrating and saddening that I don’t get to
express myself fully or authentically without
misjudgment. I imagine you didn’t mean for me
to feel that way. Can I ask that you please don’t
say things like that anymore?

Being A Witness

What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Witnessing the Ouch
I can’t believe this
is happening.
That’s SO not
right. Should I
say something?
Am I butting in?
Would it help?
I am so upset!

What We End Up Saying
When Witnessing the Ouch

What Others Hear When We Say
Nothing
See? They
agree with me!
I am so right
about this.
No one sees or
understands. I
am alone.

NCBI
Effective
Interventions
Model
• Reduce Defensiveness
– Tone
– Body Language
– Respect
• Keep the Conversation Going
– Hear Them Out
– Ask Open-Ended Questions
– Set Aside Your Feeling for the Moment
– Dialogue
• Build the Relationship
• Stop the Behavior
• Win an Ally

Say Something to Somebody
• Now or Later (or Say It Now About a Later)
• Target, Agent, Fellow Bystanders,
Authority Figures
“In the End, we will remember not the words of our
enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Intervening in the Ouch Moment: Examples
• Seek pleasure and delight in the other person
– “How many blondes does it take to screw in a light bulb?”
– “I’m SO glad you told me that joke. I’ve been trying to figure out why we think people
with yellow hair are stupid.”
• Find out the experience motivating the comment
– “Why can’t they just speak English around here?”
– “It must be hard not to understand what people are saying around you.”
– “I’m sick of my tuition paying for scholarship students.”
– “Tell me more about that.”
• Use exaggerated humor to highlight what’s going on
(use sparingly)
– “That movie is so gay.”
– “That movie is attracted to other movies? I didn’t know that was possible!”
• Join the person and do not make yourself superior
– “She got that award because she’s black and female.”
– “You know, I hear that a lot. I’ve been trying to figure out why we seem to think when a
black woman gets recognized it must be because of ‘diversity’ stuff rather than that she
earned it.”

Listening to the Real Message

What Was Said During the
Intervention
Those words or
actions are
hurtful to me.
Please stop.

What We Hear During the
Intervention
You are a
bad, bad
person, and I
hate you!

You are basically a good
and decent person. As
with all of us, you’ve
made a mistake in
behavior or words, and
you may not know the
impact they have on
others. I am going to
give you the gift of
information so that you
might act in congruence
with your values.
What We Should Hear
During the Intervention

When You’re Told About
the Ouch Moment You Created
• Listen with full attention
• Don’t try to defend or respond right away
– Take deep breaths
– Acknowledge your feelings
• Your mistakes don’t define you
– Be worthy of their trust and gift
• Prioritize the Impact over Intent
– Apologize for real
*** Moving through these moments with grace is called shame
resilience. It’s a vital skill***

When You’re Told About
the Ouch Moment You Created:
Examples
• “I really appreciate your telling me this.”
• “I’m so embarrassed that I did that.”
• “I’m so sorry my words and actions made you feel
that way. No matter what I intended, it hurt you.”
• “I’m pretty overwhelmed right now, and I don’t want
to respond in a way I’d regret. Do you think you
can help me come up with a better way to handle
that situation after I get into a calmer place?”
• “I wanted to go back to a moment I don’t think I
handled very well… Can we talk?”

Final Words of Advice:
Recognize Your Triggers

Find Your Bucket People

Practice Makes
Less Heart-Attack-Inducing

If You Messed Up and You Know It,
Don’t Wait for the Intervention –
Just Apologize

If You’re Really Sorry,
Work to Improve

Build Authentic Relationships

Inclusive Communities

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